Crosstalk 1 from Kamen Rider Genm VS Lazer

Iwanaga Tetsuya, who played Dan Kuroto/Kamen Rider Genm, and Nakata Yuji, who was Genm's suit actor in the second half of the main TV series and in this V-Cinema, have a talk for the first time. Iwanaga-san listed some of Genm's famous scenes that he is grateful for. Nakata-san said that he has many things to reflect on, but that he still enjoyed the process of creating a character together.

仮面ライダーゲンムのスーツアクターは縄田（雄哉）さんから引き継いだんだけど、ゲンムのキャラクターは出来上がっていて、僕は岩永くんと縄田さんがつくったゲンムに寄せていく作業から始めたよ。

Nakata: I took over the role of suit actor for Kamen Rider Genm from Nawata Yuya-san, but the character of Genm had already been created, so I started with the process of adapting the character to the Genm that Iwanaga-kun and Nawata-san had created.

中田さんがゲンムを担当してくれたのは23話からで、いきなり大変なシーンからでしたよね。マキシマムマイティXになった仮面ライダーエグゼイドに、叩きのめされる回だったから。

Iwanaga: Nakata-san suddenly took charge of Genm in episode 23, and he had to start with a very difficult scene. It was the episode where he was beaten up by Kamen Rider Ex-Aid, who had become Maximum Mighty X.

本当に (笑)。23話の前に改めて挨拶したり、打ち合わせはしなかったね。

Nakata: Truly (laughs). I didn't get to greet you or have a meeting with you before episode 23.

黎斗がゲームオーバーになる回でもあったから、僕も自分の演技で精一杯で。

Iwanaga: It was also the time when Kuroto got his first game over, so I had my hands full with my own performance.

あの撮影の後、旅行するとか言っていたよね (笑)。

Nakata: You said you were going on a trip after that shoot (laughs).

あの時点では、40話くらいに復活すると聞いていたので、空いた時間でどこかに行こうと思っていたんですよ (笑)。でも「ゴライダー」の撮影に呼ばれて、本編でも30話で復活すると連絡が入って。休んだ気はしませんでした。

Iwanaga: At that point, I had heard that I would be revived around episode 40, so I thought I would go somewhere in my free time (laughs). But I got called in to shoot "Gorider" and was informed that I would be back in episode 30 of the main story. I didn't feel like I had taken a break.

岩永くんと縄田さんがイチからつくり上げたキャラクターを演じるのは重圧だったし、回よりデンジャラスゾンビはテレビで見ていてカッコよかったので、「責任重大だぞ」と思って現場に入った。そしたら岩永くんがぶっ壊れた芝居をしていて (笑)。「合わせるのも大変だなあ」と。

Nakata: I was under a lot of pressure to play a character that Iwanaga-kun and Nawata-san had created from scratch, and I had seen how cool Dangerous Zombie looked on TV and thought it was a big responsibility. Then I saw Iwanaga-kun's abnormal acting (laugh). I thought, “It's going to be tough to match up with him”.

僕は顔が見えているから、表情をフル活用して壊れられますけど、マスクで表現するのは大変だろうなと思います。

Iwanaga: Since my face can be seen, I can make full use of facial expressions to show his abnormality, but I think it must be difficult to express it with a mask.

それよりも、ゲンムがレベルX（テン）からだんだんゾンビっぽい動きに磨きがかかって、21話で最強のレベルX（エックス）になったでしょ。で、22話で黎斗が「ブゥゥン」と声を上げてベルトを巻いて変身してあれを受けての23話だから、「そこから俺になるんですか?」と思った (笑)。ゾンビっぼい報画をするのだって初めてだったし。

Nakata: More than that, you saw Genm gradually refine his zombie-like movements from Level X (10) to the strongest Level X (Unknown) in episode 21. Then, in episode 22, Kuroto shouted "buuuuun" and wrapped the belt around himself and transformed, and after that, in episode 23, I thought, “Is that going to be me from now on?” (laugh). It was also my first time doing a zombie-like performance.

23話で一度退場して、30話で復活して。復活直後は浅井（宏輔）さんが演じてくれたんですよね｡

Iwanaga: He left in episode 23 and came back in episode 30. Immediately after his revival, he was played by Asai Kosuke-san.

ふたりで一緒に考えたんでしょ、あの決めゼリフの時のポーズは。

Nakata: You two came up with that pose together, didn't you?

そうです。 隣に立つピンクの子が、「ノーコンティニューでクリアしてやるぜ」と言って、こうするじゃないですか (とエグゼイドの指のポーズをとる)。

Iwanaga: That's right. The pink kid standing next to you says, "I'll clear this with no continues," and does this (he imitates Ex-Aid’s signature pose).

ピンクの子って (笑)。仮面ライダーエグゼイドね。

Nakata: That pink kid (laughs). You mean Kamen Rider Ex-Aid.

こっちは「コンティニューしてでもクリアする」と胸のライダーゲージをなぞって、ゲージがゼロになってもクリアしてやるという意味を込めた動きにして。黎斗とゲンムは何をしてもおかしくはならないと思っていたので、ひとつひとつのポーズを自由に考えました。最初の頃のコンセプトは「セクシー＆エレガント」で、デンジャラスゾンビになってからは「クレイジー」だったんですよ。でも復活して新檀黎斗になってからは、とにかく新しいことをしようと、キーワードは考えなかったですね。

Iwanaga: This time he says, “I'll clear it even if I have to use continues,” and traces the rider gauge on his chest, a move that implies that he will clear it even if the gauge goes to zero. I knew that Kuroto and Genm wouldn’t seem too crazy no matter what I did, so I was free to come up with each and every pose. In the beginning, the concept was "sexy and elegant," and after he became Dangerous Zombie, it was "crazy". But after he revived and became Shin Dan Kuroto, I just tried to do something new and didn't think of any keywords.

「セクシー＆エレガント」は縄田さんが考えたの？

Nakata: Did Nawata-san come up with "sexy & elegant"?

ふたりで全体のバランスから考えました。「他の仮面ライダーにはエレガントさはないな」と思ったので..... (笑)。

Iwanaga: The two of us came up with the overall balance. I thought, "No other Kamen Rider has elegance"... (laughs).

仮面ライダーブレイブはエレガントじゃない？

Nakata: Isn't Kamen Rider Brave elegant?

「ケーキ」のイメージです。

Iwanaga: He gives off an image of "cake."

それは鏡飛彩でしょ (笑)。

Nakata: That's Kagami Hiiro (laughs).

泥仕合はもっとグダグダに!?

The mud fight gets even more messy!?

岩永くんのお芝居は、何をやってもいい意味で衝撃や笑いが起きるよね (笑)。後でセリフ回しを含めて真似がしたくなる。それに合わせないといけないから大変だった。正直に言うと、合わせきれなかった、が実感だけど。自分なりに準備して現場に入るんだけど、まるで予想外のことをしてきて、突き放された (苦笑)。

Nakata: Iwanaga-san's acting always shocks and makes me laugh in a good way, no matter what he does (laughs). I would want to imitate him later on, including his line delivery. I had to adapt to that, so it was very difficult. To be honest, I didn't really get it right. I would go into the set prepared in my own way, but he would do things that I didn't expect, and I was thrown off (laugh).

そんなことはないでしょう。僕は、攻撃されている時の中田さんの動きが好きで。パンチを受けてクルっと回って相手に向き合って、「もっとやってみろ」みたいな仕草を見せるところ。あとはやっぱりゾンビらしいというか、人間っぽくない動きも。「ゲンムVSレーザー」ではゲンムがゴッドマキシマムに進化したから、アクションはま違う大変さがありましたよね。

Iwanaga: I don't think so. I like the way Nakata-san moves when he is being attacked. When he takes a punch, he spins around to face his opponent and makes a gesture like, “Try harder”. I also like his zombie-like, or rather, not-so-human-like movements. In "Genm vs. Laser," Genm evolved into God Maximum, so the action was different and more difficult.

可動部分が限られているからね。設定上は圧倒的に強いし、ただ立っている状態でもいろいろな能力が使えるから、どっ構えていてもいいんだろうけど、動かないでセリフだけ言うのもおもしろくない。もうちょっと動いてもよかったな、と反省すべきポイントがたくさんある。

Nakata: The movements were limited. In terms of the setting, he is overwhelmingly strong and can use various abilities even when he is just standing still, so it would be fine for him to stand still, but it is not interesting for him to just say his lines without moving. There are many points where I should have moved a little more, and I should reflect on that.

でもデンジャラスゾンビとしての出番もあったし、マキシマムのアーマーがなくなってレベル0になったりとか、いろいろ見せ場がありましたよね。仮面ライダーレーザーとの戦いは、今回はもちろんですけど、本編の42話もおもしろかったです。

Iwanaga: But he also had his turn as Dangerous Zombie, and there were many other showcases, such as when Maximum's armor disappeared and he became level 0. The fight with Kamen Rider Lazer this time was interesting, of course, but so was episode 42 of the main series.

レーザーターボ役の藤田（慧）さんと、ああしようこうしようと話し合って演じたんだよね｡ 僕も印象に残っている。

Nakata: I talked with Fujita Satoshi-san, who played the role of Lazer Turbo, about what to do and how to do it. I was also impressed.

バイクを使ったり、アクションのパターンがいろいろありましたからね。今回はお互い手を尽くした末に、武器も持たずに殴り合いになるところがいい。

Iwanaga: There were various action patterns, such as the use of motorcycles. This time, I like the fact that after both sides have done everything they can, they end up in a fistfight with no weapons.

まさに“泥仕合”って感じだよね (笑)。ただ、うーん......。

Nakata: It really feels like a "mud fight", doesn’t it? (laughs). It's just...

フラフラな感じがよかったです。あれに合わせてアフレコをした僕と勇人くんは大変でしたけど。息づかいとかを動きに合わせるのが。

Iwanaga: I liked the feeling of being dizzy. It was tough for me and Hayato-kun who did the dubbing. It's all about matching the breath to the movement.

あそこも反省点はある。もっとうまく見せられたらな、と思った。

Nakata: I have some things to reflect on there, too. I wished I could have shown it better.

え？ よかったじゃないですか。

Iwanaga: Huh? That was good, wasn't it?

いや、キレがありすぎたというか、泥仕合なのにテキパキしすぎというか。

Nakata: No, it was too sharp, or rather, it was too fast even though it was a mud fight.

もっとグダグダでよかったということですか？

Iwanaga: Do you mean that it was better to be more sluggish?

そうそう。殴る時も、ビシッとした動きじゃなく、ただ腕を振り回している感じにするとか。染みついたものを抜くのはなかなか難しいんだけど。

Nakata: Yes, yes. When you hit someone, you don't do it with a firm motion, you just wave your arms around. It's hard to get rid of something that has become ingrained in you.

カッコよく、ちゃんと殴っているように見せるのが主ですものね。

Iwanaga: The main thing is to look cool and make it seem like you're hitting him properly.

だからこそ、普段の動きから離れて、もっと泥臭く見せないといけなかった。

Nakata: That's why I had to move away from my usual movements and make it look more unrefined..

中田さんとしては、今回のVシネに関しては反省点が多いんですね。向上心の高さゆえだと思いますが。

Iwanaga: It seems you have a lot to reflect on regarding this V-Cine. I think it is because of your high level of ambition.

そうなんだよね。本編でもうまくいかないと思うことは多かったけど。最後の泥仕合に重ねるために、岩永くんと小野塚くんが素面で殴り合うシーンも撮ったでしょ？ それを見たアクション監督の宮崎（剛）さんから、「あれぐらい味を出していけよ」と言われたけど、味って簡単に出るものじゃないだけど、本格的にアクションをやったことがない人でも出せたりする。

Nakata: That's right. There were many things that I thought would not go well in the film. Iwanaga-kun and Onozuka-kun shot a scene where they beat each other up with their bare fists in order to build on the final mud fight, didn’t they? When action director Miyazaki Tsuyoshi saw that scene, he told me, "You have to bring out that kind of flavor." That flavor is not easy to bring out, but even someone who has never done real action work can do it.

難しいですね。アクションの型は必要だけど、ちゃんと覚えているからこそ壊すのが難しい面もあるだろうし。 僕は型がないから自由にできているだけで。

Iwanaga: It’s difficult. It is necessary to have a pattern of action, but it may be difficult to break it because you have memorized it. I don't have a pattern, so I am free to do what I want.

気持ちで動いているからいいんだよ。逆に岩永くんはもっと型があるアクションをするシーンがあればいいのに、と思っていた。身体を鍛えているし、キックも脚がきれいに上がっていたから、それをいい形で見せつけるシーンがあればいいのに、と。

Nakata: It's okay because you’re moving with feeling. On the other hand, I was thinking that Iwanaga-kun should have had a scene where he does more kata-like action. You have a well-trained body, and your kicks are beautifully lifted, so I thought it would be nice if you had a scene where you could show that in a good way.

ゲームオーバーは見せ場

Game Over is the highlight

『ゲンムVSレーザー 』で中田さんが演じていたシーンのなかで印象深いのは、縛られた（檀）正宗さんのところにゾンビが現れるところ。

Iwanaga: Among the scenes that Nakata-san played in Genm VS Laser, the most memorable was when a zombie appeared in front of Masamune-san while he was tied up.

そこ (笑)!?

Nakata: That one (laughs)!?

あそこの動きはさすがでした。アメリカンホラーな感じが出ていましたね。日本一のゾンビアクターです (笑)。街にあふれたゾンビの群れも、全部中田さんが演じて、合成したんですよね。

Iwanaga: The movement there was as good as it gets. It had an American horror feel to it. He is the best zombie actor in Japan (laughs). The zombie hordes that flooded the city were all played by Nakata-san and synthesized.

そう、どこを見ても俺。1体ぐらい変わってくれればよかったのに (笑)。

Nakata: Yes, everywhere you look, it's me. I wish at least one of them had changed (laughs).

僕が「やらせてください」と言えばよかったです。本編だと、38話をよく覚えています。仮面ライダークロノスにドラム缶を投げつけた後に蹴られて、吹っ飛ばされたシーンを、現場のモニターで見ていたんですけど、カメラの方向にいい感じで倒れてきて、顔を画面に向けて、足の先にクロノスが立っている画でゲームオーバーになる。さすがだなあと思いました。

Iwanaga: I should have said, “Let me do it”. From the main story, I remember episode 38 very well. I was watching the scene on the monitor at the site where he was kicked and blown away after throwing a drum at Kamen Rider Cronus, and he fell down nice and hard in the direction of the camera, face to the screen, and it was Game Over with a picture of Cronus standing on the tip of his foot. I thought it was as good as I expected.

たまにそういう奇跡が起きてくれる。ゲームオーバーになるところは、ある意味で見せ場だったよね。

Nakata: Sometimes those miracles happen. The “Game Over” part was a highlight, in a way.

僕も復活する“土管芸”にこだわりを持っていましたし (笑)。あとは夏映画で忍者4人ぐらいと戦うシーン。雨が降っていて、あっちこっち見なきゃいけなくて。そのなかで高い所から飛び降りたり、背中の方向からの攻撃に反応したり。あそこは何テイクも撮影したから、見ているだけで大変でした (笑)。あとは金色のゾンビ。

Iwanaga: I was also particular about the "clay pipe trick" of resurrection (laughs). Then there was the scene in the summer movie where I had to fight four ninjas. It was raining and I had to look this way and that. I had to jump from high places and react to attacks from behind. We had to shoot a lot of takes for that scene, so it was hard just to watch it (laughs). Then there is the golden zombie.

金色？ あ、ハイパームテキガシャットで無敵状態になっている時か。

Nakata: Golden? Ah, when you became invincible with the Hyper Muteki Gashat.

そうです。ポーズをかけたクロノスと10秒間だけ戦って。36話でハイパームテキの解説をしている間にガシャットを奪われて、40話ではクロノスに姿を消されて、ひとりで暴れ回った後に逃げ出す。どちらもおもしろいシーンでした。

Iwanaga: That's right. He fought a posed Cronus for 10 seconds. In episode 36, the Gashat is taken away from him while he’s explaining Hyper Muteki, and in episode 40, he was disappeared by Cronus and then ran away after going on a rampage by himself. Both scenes were funny.

そっちがおもしろいことをたくさんやってくるから、こっちも、と思って必死だった (笑)。と言いつつ岩永くんの印象に残っお芝居を挙げようとすると、ぱっと出てこないな、いっぱいありすぎて。いつも驚かされてばかりだったから。

Nakata: I was desperate to do the same thing because they were doing a lot of interesting things (laughs). When I try to name some of Iwanaga-kun's most memorable scenes, I can't come up with a list, there are too many. I was always surprised by him.

縄田さんの後を継いだとおっしゃいますけど、僕は檀黎斗時代と新檀黎斗時代で、おひとりずつ変身後を演じてくれた方がいると思っています。新檀黎斗になってからも、縄田さんと一緒にゲンムをつくり上げていた頃とはまた違った引き出しを開けて、新しいことをさせていただけました。

Iwanaga: You say that you succeeded Nawata-san, but I believe that each of you played a different role after the transformation during the Dan Kuroto era and the Shin Dan Kuroto era. After becoming Shin Dan Kuroto, I was able to open different drawers and do new things compared to when I was working with Nawata-san to create Genm.

岩永くんはすべてを受け止めてくれる人なので、話がしやすいし、アイデアを出し合うこともできたね。

Nakata: Iwanaga-kun is a person who accepts everything, so it was easy to talk with him and exchange ideas.

僕は演技自体が初めてだったから、何をしていいかわからなかったし、皆さんに合わせられるようにならないと、と思っていましたけど。結果、皆さんに頼りながらも自由にやらせていただけました。おかげでキャラクターを深める作業を楽しむこともできまして。感謝の限りです。

Iwanaga: I was new to acting, so I didn't know what to do, and I thought I had to be able to adapt to everyone. As it turned out, I was able to do it freely while relying on everyone. Thanks to you, I was able to enjoy the process of deepening the character. I am very grateful for that.

演技が初めてとは思えなかったし、すごくいいものを見させてもらった1年超だった。いつも予想外の芝居をしてくるので、勉強にもなったよ。今さらながら、最初の頃、岩永くんと縄田さんが相談していたところに混ざりたかったな。どこに旅行したとか、どんなゲームにハマっているとか、余談はたくさんしたけど、もっともっと芝居の話もしたかった。

Nakata: I couldn't believe it was your first time acting, and it was over a year of very good stuff. I learned a lot from you because you always came up with plays that I didn't expect. Even after all this time, I wish I could have mixed in with Iwanaga-kun and Nawata-san's discussions at the beginning. We talked a lot about where we traveled, what games we were into, and other tangents, but I wish we could have talked more about acting.

現場のことをいろいろ教えてくださって、僕も勉強になりました。中田さんともたくさん思い出がありますよ。

Iwanaga: You taught me a lot about the field, and I learned a lot from you. I have many memories with Nakata-san.

思い出楽しかったね。もっとゲンムを演じていたかったな。

Nakata: They’re fun memories. I wish I could have played Genm more.

僕もです。

Iwanaga: Me too.

さすがにもうその機会はないかな？

Nakata: Isn’t there indeed another opportunity for that?

どうでしょう。また演じられるとしたら、別の概念として、ですね (笑)。

Iwanaga: I don't know. If I could do it again, it would be as a different concept (laughs).

やっぱり予想外だね (笑)。今後ともよろしく。

Nakata: An unexpected answer (laughs). Keep up the good work.

こちらこそ、よろしくお願いします。

Iwanaga: Thank you for your encouragement.

RETURN