Interview 21 from Ex-Aid Character Book Lvl.2
Every episode of "Kamen Rider Ex-Aid" was the climax of the series. How did director Nakazawa Shojiro, who was the main director for episodes 1-2, and the last episodes 43-45; screenwriter Takahashi Yuya, who wrote all the episodes; and producer Omori Takahito construct the game "Ex-Aid" and what kind of acting did they expect from the cast in this game?
まず、「仮面ライダーエグゼイド」の結末について語りましょう。本編放送中からスピンオフも制作し、さらにVシネマが控えているので、実に多くのストーリーを撮った気がします。
Omori: First, let's talk about the ending of Kamen Rider Ex-Aid. Since we produced a spin-off while the main series was airing, and with a V-Cinema coming up, I feel like we have really shot a lot of stories.
多人数ライダーで、ここまで全キャラクターにスポットを当てる作品はなかなかない。また夏映画で先に“トゥルー・エンディング”を描くというのもおもしろくて。夏映画のストーリーを決めなければという時期に、大森さんからそのキーワードをいただいたんですよね。
Takahashi: It is rare to see a multi-rider film that focuses so much on all the characters. It was also interesting that the "true ending" was to be depicted first in the summer film. Omori-san gave me that keyword when we were in the process of deciding on the storyline for the summer film.
春に夏映画の予告を打った時に、ナレーションがやたらシリアスでしたよね? 飛彩と大我が永夢に「やめろ!」「行くな!」と訴えていた。
Nakazawa: When we shot the trailer for the summer movie in the spring, the narration was very serious, wasn't it? When Hiiro and Taiga told Emu, “Stop!” “Don't go!”.
それは僕の仕業です (笑)。永夢が身を投げ打って戦うかのように見せて.....。
Omori: That was my work (laughs). Make it look as if Emu is going to throw himself into a fight...
実際にはポッピー (ピポパポ) が劇中で「ハッピーエンドだね」と言っています (笑)。
Takahashi: In fact, Poppy Pipopapo says "It's a happy ending" in the film (laughs).
そのセリフは、僕が付け足したんですよね。夏映画は本編最終話の後日談ながら、本編の台本 が上がるよりも前に撮ったので、キャラクターの心情が空白の状態で演じたキャストたちは、大変だったと思います。僕も後で本編を見て「このキャラクターはこんなことを考えていたのか」と、答え合わせをしましたから。それでも映画は映画で、きれいな終わり方ができた。だから「ハッピーエンド」と言ってもらいたくて。
Nakazawa: I added that line, didn't I? Although the summer movie is a sequel to the final episode of the main story, it was shot before the script for the main story was finalized, so I think it was difficult for the cast to play the characters without knowing their feelings. I also looked at the film afterwards and thought to myself, “This is what that character was thinking about”. Even so, the movie was still a movie, and it ended beautifully. So I wanted people to think “It’s a happy ending”.
1話から永夢を見守ってきて、さらにバグスターとして消滅しかねないポッピーが言うことに、意味があると感じました。
Omori: I felt that there was meaning in what Poppy, who has been watching over Emu since episode 1 and who could have disappeared as a bugster, had to say.
キャストの何人かは、自分の役がカッコよく散ったらいい、と思っていたみたいですね (笑)。
Nakazawa: Some of the cast members seemed to think that it would be nice if their characters disappeared in a cool way (laughs).
12話で一度ゲームオーバーになって、 ラブコールが絶えなかった貴利矢のように、印象的にはなりますからね。『エグゼイド』は特に、ご覧になっている方も“バッドエンド”がお好みの傾向が強いような気がしています (苦笑)。確かに全キャラクターが生き残るエンディングは、仮面ライダーシリーズでは珍しい方かもしれませんが。
Omori: It is impressive, just like Kiriya, who had a game over in episode 12, and fans were earnestly expressing their love for him. I have a feeling that the viewers of "Ex-Aid" especially tend to prefer "bad endings" (wry smile). It is true that an ending in which all characters survive is rare in the Kamen Rider series.
黎斗と貴利矢は元人間で、バグスターとなって蘇った。最後は消滅すべきでは.....という話もしましたよね。ただ夏映画で全員を出すと決めた、しかもそれを時系列的にの後としたので、 本編では全員が残ることになったんでした。
Takahashi: Kuroto and Kiriya are former human beings who have been revived as bugsters. Shouldn't they disappear at the end... We also talked about this, didn't we? However, we decided to bring them all out in the summer movie, and since that was chronologically set after the TV show, they were all to remain in the main story.
僕も、誰かしらいなくなるのかと思っていました。ところが、消えたと思えば戻って来るし、最後まで落ち着きがない展開でしたね (笑)。
Nakazawa: I also thought that someone was going to disappear. However, just when I thought they were gone, they came back, and I was restless until the very end (laughs).
初めて仮面ライダーシリーズに携わらせていただいて、仮面ライダーはその特性上、なかなか消滅しないということを学びました (笑)。
Takahashi: This was my first time being involved in the Kamen Rider series, and I learned that Kamen Riders, by their very nature, do not disappear easily (laughs).
不器用なキャラクターたちの変化
Awkward characters evolve
鏡飛彩役の瀬戸利樹くんは、「キレイな涙を流すな」と思いました。台本で僕が泣かせたんですけど (笑)。
Takahashi: I think Seto Toshiki, who played the role of Kagami Hiiro, cries beautiful tears. That’s why I made him cry in the script (laughs).
そこも含めて、飛彩の物語は当初の予定通終わらせることができましたね。恋人の百瀬小姫との再会と別れで、彼のドクターとしての在り方を描こうと決めていましたから。
Omori: Including that part, we were able to finish Hiiro's story as we had originally planned. I had decided to depict his way of being as a doctor through the reunion and separation with his girlfriend, Momose Saki.
マスクで涙を隠す仮面ライダーという、主人公感を貫かせることができました。みんなが主人公でもおかしくないほどの存在感にできたと思いますが、なかでも飛彩は、本編で哀しみを背負ったまま終わらせる役回りにしたかった。
Takahashi: We were able to carry through the sense of heroism of the original Kamen Rider, who hides his tears behind his mask. I think we were able to create a sense of presence where it felt like anyone could’ve been the main character, but I especially wanted Hiiro to end the story carrying his sadness on his shoulders.
僕の担当回は、24話や38話での涙を経たからこその“笑顔”を出してもらいました。みんなのなかで揉まれたことで成長を見せるには、飛彩の場合は“笑顔”こそふさわしい。45話では要所で「ちょっと笑ってもいいのでは?」と提案しました。
Nakazawa: In the episode I was in charge of, I asked him to show his "smile" because of the tears he had shed in episodes 24 and 38. In Hiiro's case, a "smile" is the most appropriate way to show his growth after being exposed to everyone else. In episode 45, at a key point, I suggested that it was okay to laugh a little.
小姫のことを話しながらの笑顔は、頼もしさも感じられました。
Omori: The smile on his face as he talked about Saki was also very encouraging and dependable.
瀬戸くん本人は「笑いすぎじゃないですかね?」と心配していました。この1年、本当に飛彩を笑わせていなかったということですよね (笑)。「大丈夫だよ、飛彩もちょっとは柔らかくなったんだから」と答えましたけど。心から笑っているのだから、ぎこちない笑顔にはならないようにしてもらいました。夏映画も含めて、笑顔も似合う男になりましたよね。
Nakazawa: Seto-kun himself was worried that he was laughing too much. It means we haven't really let Hiiro laugh for the past year (laugh). I replied, “Don't worry, Hiiro has softened up a bit.” I asked him not to look awkward because he was smiling from the heart. He has become a man who also looks good with a smile, including in the summer movie.
たまにしか笑わないから、威力が大きいんですよね。瀬戸くん自身は昔からオーディションで会っていて、その頃は精悍なイメージだったんですが、実際はとても朗らかな人でした (笑)。
Omori: He only laughs once in a while, so it is very powerful. I met Seto-kun himself at auditions a long time ago, and at that time I had an image of him as a fierce person, but in reality he is a very cheerful person (laughs).
見た目とのギャップも発揮できた1年だったのでは。今でも飛彩の姿しか見たことのない方は、クールな人物だと思っているようですし (笑)。
Takahashi: It must have been a year in which he was able to show the gap between his appearance and that of the others. Even now, people who have only seen him as Hiiro seem to think he’s a cold person (laughs).
どこに行ってもいじられていますけどね。
Nakazawa: He gets teased wherever he goes.
飛彩については、台本で翻弄させました。
Takahashi: Just like Hiiro, he was at the mercy of the script.
元来のいじられ役なんでしょうね (笑)。
Omori: I guess he’s easily teasable by nature (laughs).
飛彩とは因縁の仲だった花家大我を演じた松本享恭くんは、トークでは一歩引いている感じがしますけど、撮影現場ではどんな役者さんでしたか?
Takahashi: Matsumoto Ukyo, who played the role of Hanaya Taiga, who had a fateful relationship with Hiiro, seems to take a backseat in these types of conversations, but what kind of actor was he on set?
自分から「あれをしたい」「これもしたい」と言ってくる方ではなかったです。ただ、自分のなかで考えながらやっているのはわかる。言葉ではなく、芝居で見せてくる役者でした。
Nakazawa: He wasn’t the type who said to me, “I want to do this” or “I want to do that” on his own. However, I could tell that he was thinking about what he wanted to do. He was an actor who showed us his performance not through words but through acting.
当初の大我は考えを語らない、人に悟らせない役だったので、迷いながら演じた部分もあったと思います。芝居の積極性という意味では、やりたいことの伝え方がわからない感じがしました。度々大我の先行きを聞かれましたが、「シーンをどう成立させるか」に重きを置く役者さんのようですね。
Omori: In the beginning, Taiga was a character that did not speak his thoughts or let people realize what he was thinking, so I think there were parts of the role that he was unsure about. In terms of the aggressiveness of his acting, I felt like he didn’t know how to convey what he wanted to do. He was often asked about Taiga’s future, and it seems that he is an actor who places importance on "how to make a scene work".
「先に何があってこのセリフを言うのか」を気にして、「どうしたらいいですか」という質問は何度かされました。それでも西馬ニコの存在で“患者”へのスタンスが見えた以降は、演じやすくなったみたいです。43話で「ドクターでありたい」と言うガツンとした芝居ができたのも、柔らかなを経たから。飛彩が「やっと本音を聞けた」と言っていましたが、僕も「ほんとだよ」と思いました。「ガシャット寄こせ」男で終わらなくてよかった (笑)。
Nakazawa: He asked for help several times, like “What should I do? What’s happening here and why is he saying this line?”. Even so, after he found his stance toward "patients" with the arrival of Saiba Nico, he found it easier to play the role. It was only after going through that softening process that he was able to say “I want to be a doctor” in episode 43. Hiiro said, “I finally got to hear his real feelings,” and I thought to myself, “It's true”. I'm glad he didn't end up as the "Hand over your gashats" guy (laughs).
(笑)
Takahashi & Omori: (laugh)
「NO」と言い続け、追いつめられた果てに「ドクターでありたい」という「YES」を引き出す想定でした。ただ享恭くんは、翳り､というか、言葉と裏腹な表情を出せる役者さんだと思ったんです。言葉が「YES」なら本音は「NO」、その逆もあり。その最たる表現が、42話で飛彩に「お前ほどのドクターはいない」と言われた時には「捨てた過去」と否定させ、43話の本音につなげることでした。
Takahashi: I assumed that he would keep saying "no," and after being driven to the edge, he would finally say "yes" to the idea of being a doctor. However, I thought Ukyo-kun was an actor who could create a shadow, or rather, an expression that was opposite to his words. When he says "yes," his true feelings are "no," and vice versa. The best example of this was in episode 42, when Hiiro said to him, "No other doctor compares to you," I had him deny it by saying, "I have abandoned the past," which led to his true feelings in episode 43.
語らない姿がカッコいいんですけどね。黎斗にいろいろなことをされたのに、誰にも言わない。
Omori: It's cool that he keeps things to himself, though. Kuroto has done so many things to him, but he didn't tell anyone.
そこでニコを聡い子にして、大我の想いの媒介となってもらいました。
Takahashi: That’s why I made Nico a smart kid and had her act as a medium for Taiga's feelings.
自分に課せられた苦行を受け入れ、誰に不満をもらすでもなく......。キャラクターの中で一番心が広くて、本当に“いい人”でした。
Omori: He accepted the hardships imposed on him and never complained to anyone... He was the most open-minded and truly "good-natured" of all the characters.
(笑)。ニコ役の黒崎レイナさんも成長したと思いますが、ふとした瞬間にお芝居に行きづまる時があったので、そこを克服していけたら、もっと良くなるでしょうね。大我とのかけ合いはテンポよく、パワフルに見せてくれたのでおもしろかったです。あのパワーが、大我の頑なだった心を動かしたんですからね。
Nakazawa: (laughs). Kurosaki Reina, who played Nico, has also matured, but there were times when she suddenly got stuck in her performance, so if she can overcome that, she will be even better. I enjoyed the fast-paced and powerful dialogue between her and Taiga. It was interesting to see how powerfully she moved Taiga's stubborn heart.
ヒロインをポッピーという人間ではないゲームキャラクターにしたので、もうひとりのヒロインのような立ち位置にも見えたかもしれません。黒崎さんも途中、お茶目なお芝居を入れてきているなと感じる時があったので、そこだけではない魅力もあるニコになるよう、意識して書きました。
Takahashi: Since I made the heroine Poppy a non-human game character, she could be seen as another heroine. I felt that Kurosaki-san was sometimes acting mischievously in the middle of the story, so I was conscious of writing Nico in such a way that there was more to her charm than just that.
「大我を跳ねさせるキャラクターをつくろう」という話になった結果、医療よりもゲームの知識が高い方が大我との対比になるということで、あのニコが誕生したわけですが。
Omori: When we talked about creating a character that would push Taiga, we decided that a character with more knowledge of games than medicine would be a good contrast for Taiga, and so Nico was born.
一緒に戦える存在で、面倒見のいい大我が強く突っぱねられない年下がいいだろう、と。
Takahashi: I thought it would be nice to have someone who can fight alongside him and who is younger than the service-minded Taiga.
いい形にできましたね。ニコのオーディションには「この役を絶対に獲る!」という女優さんたちが集まり、黒崎さんが勝ち取った。最後まで「何かやってやろう」という執念が感じられました。
Omori: It turned out well. Nico's audition was attended by many actresses who said, “I'm going to get this role!” and Kurosaki-san was the one who won. I could feel her tenacity to "do something" until the very end.
ゲムデウスのゲーム病にかかり、命がけの戦いになってからは、黒崎さんのお芝居も変わって見えました。「死にたくない」と、永夢にパラドを説得するきっかけをつくった時のお芝居は、真に迫っていた。
Takahashi: After she contracted the Gemdeus virus and was fighting for her life, Kurosaki-san’s acting looked different. When she gave Emu the impetus to go after Parad by saying “I don’t want to die”, her performance felt very realistic.
Vシネマでも活躍するんですか?
Nakazawa: Will she also appear in the V-Cinema?
そうですね。 大我とニコの関係性のひとつの終着点を書きました。天才ゲーマーとしての彼女ならではの未来の選択を、楽しみにしてほしいです。
Takahashi: She will. I wrote one endpoint of the relationship between Taiga and Nico. I hope you will enjoy her unique future choices as a genius gamer.
跳ねすぎたキャラクターたち
Characters who bounce around too much
檀黎斗は、台本ではあそこまでくだけて書いていなかったんですが。仕上がりを見ると、いつも濃いキャラクターになっていました (笑)。
Takahashi: I didn't write Dan Kuroto to be so disruptive in the script. But when I looked at the finished product, he always turned out to be a strong character (laughs).
僕やカミホリ (上堀内佳寿也) 先生は止めていたんですけど、山口 (恭平) 組を経ると濃くなるんですよ。 最後はあきらめました (笑)。
Nakazawa: Kamihori-sensei and I tried to stop him, but after Yamaguchi’s direction, it became more and more intense. In the end, I gave up (laughs).
岩永徹也くんがもってくるものが、放送できないラインだったりしましたよね (笑)。それを監督たちが放送できるところに落とし込んだ。
Omori: There were lines that Iwanaga Tetsuya brought up that could not be broadcast (laughs). The directors then worked it down to the point where it could be broadcast.
(笑)!
Takahashi & Nakazawa: (laugh)!
黎斗の所業はお子さんたちに真似してほしくないもの。 岩永くんの無軌道な芝居が、“共感されないゲームクリエイター・黎斗”を確立しました。
Takahashi: Kuroto's behavior is something you don’t want children to emulate. Iwanaga-kun's unleashed performance establishes Kuroto as a game creator who is not to be sympathized with.
唯一、ポッピーに対しては違った顔を見せますね。僕は彼女が、黎斗にとって“母親”であると捉えていました。だから44話で消滅寸前のポッピーが現れた時の芝居は、岩永くんに「命が消えかけの母親が会いに来た。それを素直に受ける芝居をしてほしい」と話したんです。あそこだけは狂気を削ぎ落として、無防備になるというか。
Nakazawa: The only one he shows a different face to is Poppy. I saw her as a "mother" to Kuroto. So when Poppy was on the verge of disappearing in episode 44, I told Iwanaga-kun, “Your mother whose life is about to disappear came to see you. I want you to act in a way that reflects this.” It's the only place where the madness is cut down and he becomes defenseless.
ギャップが印象的でした。
Omori: The gap was impressive.
父の檀正宗に対しても、違う顔を見せるようにしました。一枚上手の存在に挑むというか。 正宗は刑務所にいる姿を書いていた時から、最終的にはラスボスにしようと決めていましたよね。黎斗が思いのほか悪役として花開いていったので、「その後に来るのはやりづらいだろうな」と思いましたが (笑)。違った角度で描こうと思いつつ、貴水博之さんも跳ねたお芝居をしてくださって、印象的なキャラクターに.....貴水さんはセリフに音楽を感じるのがいい。少し説明的で長いセリフも独特のリズム感で言ってくださるので、聞いていておもしろいです。「檀親子はよく似ていた」という結果になりました (笑)。
Takahashi: I tried to show a different face to his father, Dan Masamune. It's like challenging a superior being. From the time I was writing about Masamune in prison, I had decided to make him the final boss. Since Kuroto blossomed unexpectedly as a villain, I thought, “It will be hard to come after him” (laughs). While trying to portray a different angle, Takami Hiroyuki also gave a bouncy performance and made a memorable character... I like the way Takami-san makes the lines sound like music. It is interesting to listen to him say long lines that are a bit expository with a unique sense of rhythm. The result was that "Dan and his son are very similar" (laugh).
父と息子があれだけアクが強いと、妻であり母である櫻子は、どんな人だったんでしょうね。
Nakazawa: If the father and son have such strong personalities, I wonder what kind of person Sakurako, their wife and mother, must have been.
最強かもしれません。
Takahashi: She might be the strongest.
つまりラスボスは櫻子だった、と (笑)。
Omori: In other words, the last boss was Sakurako (laughs).
(笑)!
Takahashi & Nakazawa: (laugh)!
本編で、黎斗は永夢たちと容赦なく父親に攻撃しました。ただあの親子関係は終わりではないんです。黎斗と岩永くん、正宗と貴水さんには、Vシネマでも活躍していただきます。
Omori: In the main story, Kuroto mercilessly attacked his father along with Emu and the others. But that father-son relationship is not over. Kuroto and Iwanaga-kun, and Masamune and Takami-san will also play an active role in the V-Cinema.
そもそも黎斗が動かなければ、「エグゼイド」の物語は何も始まっていませんからね。
Takahashi: In the first place, if Kuroto didn't make a move, the story of "Ex-Aid" wouldn't have started at all.
世の中に対してひどいことをしているけれど、岩永くんがコミカル要素も入れて演じたことで、お子さんでも見やすくなったと言えますね。
Nakazawa: Although he is doing terrible things to the world, Iwanaga-kun's performance with comical elements makes it easier for children to see.
黎斗にはがないやり方を間違えていただけということを、岩永くんが振り切ったお芝居で伝えてくれました。
Takahashi: With his unhinged acting, Iwanaga-kun conveyed that he was just doing it wrong in a way that Kuroto never had.
終盤では唯一の癒し要素にもなっていましたね。貴利矢とのやりとりも軽妙で。
Omori: It was also the only healing element towards the end of the show. His interactions with Kiriya were also lighthearted.
セット感が出ましたね。貴利矢は当初は復活する予定がなかったとは思えない存在感。能動的に動けるので、描きやすくはありました。
Nakazawa: It has a set feel. Kiriya has such a presence that it’s hard to believe that his revival wasn’t originally planned. It was easy to depict him because he can move actively.
黎斗の所業にすべて収拾をつけますからね。黎斗がマイナスなら、貴利矢がプラスの存在。
Omori: He puts all of Kuroto's deeds in perspective. If Kuroto is a negative, Kiriya is a positive.
キャラクターも演じた小野塚勇人くんも、ちょっと有能すぎましたね。貴利矢は描くほど目立つので、描き方のバランスが難しかった。
Takahashi: Onozuka Hayato, who plays the character, is a bit too talented. The more shape he took, the more Kiriya stood out, so it was difficult to find the right balance in how to depict him.
有能すぎて、ドクターとしても仮面ライダーとしても、永夢たちがしていることの全部が、実はひとりでできてしまうんですよね。
Omori: He is so competent that he can actually do everything Emu and the others do, both as doctors and as Kamen Riders, all by himself.
ただバグスターとして復活したので、黎斗とドクターマイティXXガシャットをつくったり、バグスターにしかできない役割を担わせました。
Takahashi: However, since he was resurrected as a bugster, we gave him a role that only a bugster can play, such as creating the Dr. Mighty XX Gashat with Kuroto.
小野塚くんはメインキャストのなかで一番クレバーだし、器用な芝居をします。他のキャストにはアドバイスや指示した部分も、小野塚くんは自分でやっていた。シーンの隙間を埋めてくれたり、あるものを膨らませてくれたり。立っているだけ、座っているだけのシーンでも、貴利矢らしいワンアクションを入れてくれるんです。キャラクターとしっかり向き合った芝居をしているな、と思いました。最終話で彩とコーヒーを飲んでいるシーンで、貴利矢が実は甘党だったという設定を、彼だけが覚えていて、いきなり「甘党だった!」と言い出して、クリームや砂糖をいっぱい入れている画にしてくれたんです。
Nakazawa: Onozuka-kun is the most clever and dexterous actor in the main cast. Onozuka-kun did by himself what he advised and instructed the other cast members to do. He would fill in the gaps in a scene or expand on certain things. Even in scenes where he was just standing or sitting still, he would put in one action that was uniquely Kiriya. I think that his acting was well suited to the character. In the scene in the last episode when he is having coffee with Hiiro, he was the only one who remembered that Kiriya actually had a sweet tooth, and he suddenly said, "I had a sweet tooth!" and added a lot of cream and sugar.
確かに、『ゴライダー』でコーヒーを飲む時に入れていました。
Takahashi: Certainly, I put it in when he drank coffee in "Gorider".
なるほど (納得)。
Nakazawa & Omori: I see (understanding).
メインキャラクターのなかでも出ずっぱりというわけではないポジションでしたが、限られた出番でキャラクター性をガッツリと発揮できるのは、小野塚くんの芝居力ですね。
Takahashi: He wasn't in a position that stood out all the time among the main characters, but it was Onozuka-kun's acting ability that allowed him to fully demonstrate his character in a limited number of appearances.
メインキャラクターに、人付き合いが得意な人っていないじゃないですか。人当たりがいいとされる永夢も、突き詰めると一人っ子気質で、誰にも相談せずに物事を進めていたし。
Nakazawa: None of the main characters are good at socializing. Even Emu, who is known for his good-natured personality, is an only child at heart and does things without consulting anyone.
大半がB型だからですかね。
Takahashi: Maybe it’s because most of them are blood type B.
それはキャストたちの話でしょう (笑)。
Omori: That would be the cast members (laughs).
キャラクターでいえば (笑)、貴利矢はみんなに接していける存在なので、貴重ですよね。
Nakazawa: Speaking of characters (laughs), Kiriya is valuable because he is someone who can interact with everyone.
その点は、キャスト間における小野塚くんにも言えるかもしれません。
Omori: The same can be said for Onozuka-kun in the cast.
舞台挨拶を見ていると、笑いを交えつつ、一番しっかりと作品のことを話してくれている。
Takahashi: When I watch the stage greetings, I can see that he talks about the work most clearly while laughing.
他はボケ担当ばかりですから (笑)。
Nakazawa: The others are all in charge of blurting things out (laugh).
"家族"なバグスターたち
Bugsters as a "family"
元からバグスターだったキャラクターについて話しますと、ポッピーはほぼ完成されたバグスターとしてスタートさせました。永夢と会う前から、人間社会にいたわけですから。同じバグスターとして、パラドが彼女に追いついていくイメージだったんです。だからこそ序盤は揺れ動かさずにいたところ、松田るかさんは一番客観的に『エグゼイド』を見ている存在でした。
Omori: Talking about characters who were bugsters from the beginning, Poppy started out as an almost complete bugster. She was integrated into human society even before she met Emu. I had the image of Parad catching up with her as a fellow bugster. Since her character didn’t waver in the beginning, Matsuda Ruka was the one who looked at "Ex-Aid" in the most objective way.
お芝居欲が強く、「もっとお芝居がしたいです!」と言っていました。『仮面ライダークロニクル』 が動いた25話からは、パラドやグラファイトたちバグスター同士でのやりとりも出てきて、28話では泣きのお芝居もありましたが。ラヴリカの“洗脳”というキーワードがあったので、僕からは「今まで通りで怖さを出してほしい」とお願いしました。バグスターだけに「消滅するかもしれない」という想いもあったんでしょうね。「ポッピーの存在理由」を考え、悩みながら演じているのは伝わってきました。
Nakazawa: She had a strong desire to act and asked us for more opportunities to perform. Starting episode 25, when "Kamen Rider Chronicle" was put into motion, she had some interactions with bugsters such as Parad and Graphite, and there was even a tearful performance in episode 28. The keyword with Lovelica was “brainwashing”, so I asked her to make it as scary as possible. I guess there was also the thought that only bugsters might "disappear". I could tell that she was thinking about "the reason for Poppy's existence," and worried about her as she played the role.
敵をゲームキャラクターにしたので、ゲーム好きな僕としては、ゲームが怖いもの、やってはいけないものには見られないようにしたかった。それを体現したのが、「みんなと楽しくゲームがしたい」と考えているポッピーです。
Takahashi: Since the enemies were game characters, as a game lover, I wanted to make sure that games would not be seen as something to be feared or something that should not be done. This was embodied in Poppy, who wants to have fun playing games with everyone.
44話で一度散る時は、人間のために自らの命を投げ出し、しかも笑顔で消えていきましたからね。まさにのバグスター。
Omori: In episode 44, she gave up her own life for the sake of humanity and disappeared with a smile on her face. A true bugster.
新しいヒロイン像をつくれたと思います。僕としては、『ポッピーピポパポ』というゲームキャラクターを生み出せたことと、二次元のキャラクターを体現できる女優さんがいてくれたことがうれしい。歌にダンスにコスプレにと、松田さんにしかできないことを担っていただけました。
Takahashi: I think we were able to create a new image of a heroine. For my part, I’m happy that we were able to create a game character called "Poppy Pipopapo" and that we had an actress who could embody a 2D character. She was able to sing, dance, and cosplay in a way that only Matsuda-san could do.
パラドにとってのポッピーは、人間、しかも大好きな永夢と共存している“先輩”でしたね。
Omori: For Parad, Poppy was a "senior" who coexisted with human beings and his beloved Emu.
そうなんですよね。パラドは25話で『クロニクル』を起動させてから、喜怒哀楽の幅が広がりました。なかでも甲斐翔真くんは、哀しみのお芝居がいい。40話で「ごめんなさい」と言った一連のお芝居は、『エグゼイド』のテーマである「病と向き合う」を体現してくれました。
Takahashi: That's right. Since Parad activated "Chronicle" in episode 25, his range of joy, anger, and sorrow has expanded. In particular, Kai Shouma is especially good at performing sadness, and his series of “I'm sorry”s in episode 40 embodies the theme of Ex-Aid - "facing up to illness".
パラドは当初、「ゲームが楽しめればいいゲームキャラクター」として、記号のような立ち位置でしたよね。そんなキャラクターが紆余曲折を経て感情を得て、44話のラストでは、笑顔で消滅して いく。僕は「その笑顔は特別であってほしい」と言い、甲斐くんは見せてくれた。「ごめんなさい」のシーンで、パラドも甲斐くんも意識が変わったんだと思います。実際、芝居をしている時の顔が以前とは違っていました。
Nakazawa: In the beginning, Parad stood as a symbol of a "game character who just wants to enjoy the game". After many twists and turns, he gained emotions, and at the end of episode 44, he disappeared with a smile on his face. I said, “I want that smile to be special,” and Kai-kun showed it to me. I think the "I'm sorry" scene changed the mindset of both Parad and Kai-kun. In fact, his face when he was performing that scene was different than before.
前号で、甲斐くんからは芝居をやっていこうという気を感じると言いましたが、磨きがかったようです。彼の伸びしろにつながった。
Omori: In the previous issue, I said that I felt Kai-kun had a lot of talent as an actor, and it seems that he has been polished. It led to his growth.
長身の甲斐くんが、そうは見えない少年っぽさを演じきってくれました。永夢と並ぶと「こんなに大きかった?」と思っていました (笑)。
Takahashi: Kai-kun, a tall man, played the role with a boyishness that didn’t match his physical appearance. When he stood next to Emu, I thought to myself, “Was he always that big?” (laughs).
彼の少年性は大きな魅力でしたね。
Nakazawa: His boyishness was a big attraction.
黎斗同様、悪いことはしているんですけどね (苦笑)。甲斐くんが演じるとピュアに感じられるというか。岩永くんとは違ったピュアさで、パラドを愛されるキャラクターにしてくれました。
Takahashi: Like Kuroto, he did some bad things (wry smile). When Kai-kun plays the role, it feels very pure. He made Parad a beloved character with a purity that was different from Iwanaga-kun's.
記号としての期間が長かった分、39、40話の2話で、時間をかけてパラドの変化を描きました。ホン読みを2回するという、上堀内監督も気合たっぷりで臨んでくださった。新人だからこそ必要なことだと言えますが、新人にこの時間を設けてくれることが珍しいとも言えます。重圧でもあったでしょうが、甲斐くんは応えてくれました。今後のお芝居にも活かせる経験になったはずです。
Omori: Because of the long period as a symbol, we took the time to depict the changes in Parad in two episodes, 39 and 40. Director Kamihoriuchi was also very enthusiastic about the project, doing two script rehearsals. You could say that this is necessary because he is new, but you could also say that it is unusual for a newcomer to be given such consideration. It must have been a lot of pressure, but Kai-kun responded well. It should’ve been an experience that he can use in his future acting.
そんなパラドを、永夢とは別のかたちで支えていたのがグラファイトですが、僕はほとんど撮っていなくて。町井祥真くんに「僕のことは撮ってくれないんですね......」と言われました (笑)。
Nakazawa: Graphite supported Parad in a different way from Emu, but we hardly shot any scenes with him. Machii Shouma said to me, “You never take shots of me…” (laugh).
(笑)。町井くんはいじられるタイプですが、グラファイトは、無邪気に行動するパラドの手綱をギュッと握る包容力がありましたね。
Takahashi: (laughs). Machii-kun is the type to get bullied, but Graphite had the tolerance to hold the reins of Parad's innocent behavior tightly.
敵側に複数人いると、たいてい内部でもめますよね。今回もそうかと思っていたら、パラドとグラファイトは逆に結束力を高めていった。
Nakazawa: When there is more than one person on the enemy side, there is usually an internal struggle. I thought it would be the same this time, but Parad and Graphite, on the contrary, strengthened their unity.
ドクター側が常にもめていたので (笑)。
Omori: On the other side, the doctors were always arguing (laughs).
それですね (笑)。
Nakazawa: True (laughs).
パラドに対し、「帰りが遅いから心配したぞ」というセリフを書きたくなる男でした (笑)。
Takahashi: Graphite made me want to write a line to Parad saying, "I was worried because you came home late" (laughs).
周りが二面性のあるキャラクターばかりだっ たなか、グラファイトは表しかないので......苦労させましたね。結果、悪役なのにいい奴に見えるという、反比例の効果がありました。
Omori: While all around him were two-faced characters, Graphite was honest and straightforward… It must’ve been hard for him. The result was an inversely proportional effect: he looked like a good guy even though he was a villain.
41話での散り際がよかった。悪役ながらカッコよく散っていけたのは、キャラクターが魅力的だったからですよね。
Nakazawa: I liked the way he disappeared in episode 41. The reason he was able to disappear in such a cool way despite being a villain was because his character was so appealing.
オンエアを見て、 グラファイトの消滅シーンが一番哀しかったです。いい人を亡くした。
Omori: When it aired, Graphite’s disappearance scene was the saddest thing I had ever seen. We lost a good man.
(笑)!
Takahashi & Nakazawa: (laugh)!
町井くんは落ち着きのあるお芝居をしてくれたし、キャストみんなのことを気づかってくれるいいおでした。
Omori: Machii-kun performed with a calm demeanor and was very considerate of everyone in the cast.
グラファイト同様に“母性”を感じました。
Takahashi: I felt a sense of "motherhood" from Graphite.
“父性”ではなく(笑)。
Nakazawa: Not "fatherhood" (laughs).
結果、バグスターこそ“家族”を感じさせる存在になりましたね。
Omori: As a result, the bugsters have become a "family" of sorts.
“命”を担った主人公
The protagonist who took on "life"
最後に宝生永夢、そして飯島寛騎くんですが。最終話はいい顔をしていましたね。内科研修の診察シーンは、1話で小児科研修をしていた姿とりンクさせていたので「成長したな」と。
Omori: Last but not least, Hojo Emu and Iijima Hiroki. He had some good expressions in the last episode. The scene of the internal medicine examination was a reflection of his pediatric training in the first episode, so I thought, “He’s grown up”.
夏映画のエンディングと1話もリンクさせているので、どちらも見比べてほしいです。
Nakazawa: We have also linked the first episode to the ending of the summer movie so that you can compare both.
映画の永夢の最後のセリフは、飯島くんのお芝居でも特に涙腺を刺激されました。1年、本当にいろいろなお芝居をしてもらいましたよね。ドクターなので、優しくて、正しいことを言う人物。だけどそれだけではおもしろみに欠ける人になってしまいます。高校時代や18話で、パラドに身体を乗っ取られて悪いことをしてしまう。39、40話ではパラドを教育するためには“鬼”にもなる。僕は、永夢のサイコパス的な部分が好きで (笑)。
Takahashi: Emu’s last line in the movie was a particularly tear-jerking performance from Iijima-kun. He has given us so many different performances over the past year. He is a doctor, so he is kind and righteous. But that alone makes a person uninteresting. In high school and in episode 18, he does bad things when Parad takes over his body, and in episodes 39 and 40, he even becomes a "demon" in order to educate Parad. I like Emu's psychopathic side (laughs).
飯島くんは目に光がない表情がハマる (笑)。岩永くんと同じで、振り切るか静かにやるか、両極端の芝居が冴えていました。“ドクターの永夢”には、その中間のお芝居がほしい。今後の役はそこがさらに求められるでしょうね。
Omori: Iijima-kun's expression without light in his eyes is addictive (laughs). Like Iwanaga-kun, he was brilliant at playing the extremes, knowing when to shake it up or when to tone it down. “Doctor Emu” requires acting in the middle. I’m sure this skill will be useful for future roles.
「エグゼイド」は、キャラクターたちのそれぞれの命の価値観を並列で描き、視聴者の方たちがどれに共感するのか、という問題提起をした作品でもありました。そして最終話で永夢が記者会見で言ったことが、伝えたいことです。飯島くんのお芝居で響いていてほしいと思いました。
Takahashi: "Ex-Aid" was a work that drew a parallel between the values of each of the characters' lives and posed the question of which of them viewers would identify with. And what Emu said at the press conference in the last episode is what I wanted to convey. I hoped that Iijima-kun's performance would resonate with the audience.
「エグゼイド」の最終的な提示は、飯島くんの芝居でしっかり出せたと思っています。
Nakazawa: I believe that the final presentation of "Ex-Aid" was done justice by Iijima-kun's acting.
永夢にはいろいろな試練を課しましたが、あのタフさには脱帽します (笑)。
Takahashi: I put Emu through a lot of trials, but I take my hat off to him for his toughness (laughs).
永夢はカンもいいし、頭もいいですしね。
Nakazawa: Emu has good instincts and is very smart.
そうでなければ乗り越えられない命の局面ばかりで、飯島くんもよく乗り越えてくれました。
Omori: It was all a phase of life that would have been otherwise insurmountable, and Iijima-kun did well to overcome it.
飯島くんには「永夢の恋愛話がやってみたい」と言われました。医療ドラマで恋愛描写もありますが、「永夢はそんなことをしている場合じゃないから」と、泣く泣く2秒で断りましたが (笑)。
Takahashi: Iijima-kun told me, "I want to do a love story about Emu". Although this is a medical drama and there is a depiction of romance, I turned him down in two seconds, crying because "Emu doesn't have time for such things" (laughs).
(笑)!
Nakazawa & Omori: (laugh)!
“ドクターの仮面ライダー”ということで、最初はとまどうこともありましたが、改めて命のかたち、人の生きるかたちを描けてよかった。夏映画のエンディングで主題歌の「Life is Beautiful」が流れた時に、まさに「生きるとは美しい」を描けたなと。今後の仮面ライダーシリーズでも、命を描くための糧になりました。1年間、 本当にありがとうございました。
Nakazawa: At first, I was confused at the idea of "Doctor Kamen Riders", but I’m glad that I was able to depict the shape of life and the way people live. When the theme song "Life is Beautiful" was played at the ending of the summer movie, I felt that I had truly depicted the beauty of life. It gave me food for thought to portray life in future Kamen Rider series as well. Thank you very much for your support over the past year.
初めての仮面ライダー、初めて長期の作品で全話を書き、初めての医療ドラマ。あらゆる"初"を体験できた作品で、自分のなかの目標点には到達できました。作家人生の代表作、無人島に行くなら持っていきたい作品として愛していきます。皆さんにも、「エグゼイド」を愛し続けてほしいです。
Takahashi: This was my first Kamen Rider project, my first long-term work for which I wrote all the episodes, and my first medical drama. It was a work in which I experienced all kinds of "firsts," and I was able to reach my goal. I will continue to love this work as a representative work of my life as an artist and a work that I would take with me if I were to go to a desert island. I hope you will continue to love "Ex-Aid" as well.
「エグゼイド」ではすべてを出しきったので、悔いはありません。ファンの方たちのバッドエンドへの期待が想像以上だったのも (笑)、それ揺さぶりをかける作品だったのかなと。そんな方たちは、Vシネマで“アナザー・トゥルー・エンディング”をご覧になってください。
Omori: I have no regrets because I gave it my all in "Ex-Aid". The fans' expectations for a bad ending were higher than I had imagined (laughs), and I think it was a work that shook them up. For those people, please watch the "Another True Ending" V-Cinemas.
新たなタイトルになりましたね (笑)!
Takahashi: You gave it a new title (laughs)!