Iijima & Onozuka interview from HERO VISION 63
As a medical examiner and Kamen Rider Lazer, Kujou Kiriya investigates the truth behind the outbreak of the bugster virus. Because of his intelligence, he was "banished" by Dan Kuroto/Kamen Rider Genm, and suffered a "GAME OVER" in episode 12. I hope that Hojo Emu/Kamen Rider Ex-Aid, who believed in him even when he lied to him, is still smiling. With what kind of feelings did Iijima Hiroki and Onozuka Hayato act out the bond that exists between the two who were "partners" if only for a short time?
貴利矢が "GAME OVER" になることは察していたけど、何話でどんなふうになるのかまでは読めなくて。12話の台本をいただいたときに初めて知った。正直「早いなあ」と思ったよ。永夢の周りってクセ者の医者ばかりななか、貴利矢とはかなり早く打ち解けることができたから。嘘をつかれはしたけど、貴利矢が変身するバイク（仮面ライダーレーザーバイクゲーマーレベル2）に乗って協力してバグスターを倒したこともあって、相棒感があったんだよね。その相棒がいなくなるのは「さみしいな」って。
Iijima: I knew that Kiriya was going to get a "GAME OVER", but I didn't know how many episodes it was going to take until I got the script for episode 12. To tell the truth, I thought, "That was fast". Emu was able to get to know Kiriya quite quickly, despite the fact that he was surrounded by a lot of peculiar doctors. Even though he lied to him, they rode together on the bike that Kiriya transforms into (Kamen Rider Lazer Bike Gamer Level 2) and defeated the bugster, so it felt like they were buddies. I was sad to see my partner go.
僕もどういうかたちで "GAME OVER" の瞬間を迎えるかは、12話の台本を読むまで知らなかった。そういう意味ではみんなと同じ。ただ途中で退場することは出演が決まった当初からスタッフさんに明言されていたから、消えるまでの過程を掘り下げて、深めていくことを意識していた。最初は永夢を利用してバグスターウイルスの真実に近づこうとするけど、いつの問にか永夢の人間性に惹かれて信頼関係を築く。それまでの流れ、貴利矢の変わっていくさまに、どこまで感情移入して見てもらえるか、常に考えながら演じていたよ。結果より過程が大事なのでね。消えるという結果より、過程をどれほど濃いものにできるか自分なりに考えて、監さんたちとも話し合った。
Onozuka: I didn't know how I was going to get to the "GAME OVER" moment until I read the script for episode 12. In that sense, I was the same as everyone else. However, the staff had made it clear to me from the beginning that I would be leaving in the middle of the story, so I was conscious of digging deeper into the process until I disappeared. At first, he tries to use Emu to get closer to the truth about the bugster virus, but before long, he is attracted to Emu's humanity and builds a trusting relationship with him. I was always thinking about how far I could get the audience to be emotionally involved in the story and the way that Kiriya was changing. The process is more important than the result. I thought about how I could make the process more intense than the result of the disappearance, and discussed it with the supervisors.
12話の時点で飛彩たちはまだ貴利矢を信用していなかったけど、永夢は「信じられる」と確信してた。だから"GAME OVER" のシーンでは、永夢にとってどれだけ貴利矢の存在が大きかったのかをひしひしと感じたし、それが見ている方たちにも伝わるように強く意識して演じたよ。....寒かったけど (泣)。
Iijima: At the time of episode 12, Hiiro and the others still didn't trust Kiriya, but Emu was convinced that he could trust him. That's why in the "GAME OVER" scene, I really felt how much Kiriya meant to Emu, and I was very conscious of it so that the audience could feel it. ...It was cold, though (crying).
そりゃ寒いよねぇ〜 (泣)。11月の夕方から夜にかけて、撮影所に大量に雨を降らせて撮影したんだからさ。
Onozuka: It was cold, wasn't it? (cries). Because we filmed in the evening and at night in November, with a lot of rain falling on the studio.
体温が下がって手が震えちゃって。だからこそより気持ちの入った演技になったし、真に迫るシーンになったと思うけど。ある意味寒さに感謝かな (笑)？
Iijima: My body temperature dropped and my hands started to shake. That's why I was able to put more energy into my performance, and I think it made the scene more realistic. I guess in a way I'm thankful for the cold (laughs).
本当にね (笑)。僕はあんなに雨を受けながらの芝居が初めてだったうえに、大の字に倒れての演技だったから。雨が口に入って話せないどころか、うがいができちゃうぐらいだったよ(笑)。どういう芝居をするかいろいろ考えていたんだけど、現場に入ってからは「気合だ」と思い直した。言い方とか表情とか小手先のことを気にするより、事故で亡くした友人の（藍原）淳吾への想いだったり、信じてくれる永夢へ伝えたいことだったり、貴利矢の根底にあるものを爆発させようって。
Onozuka: Really... (laughs). I've never acted in the rain like that before, and I was lying on the ground. The rain got in my mouth and I couldn't even talk, I could barely gargle (laughs). I was thinking a lot about how to act, but once I got on the set, I thought, "It's all about energy." Rather than worrying about small things like how to say things or facial expressions, I thought I'd rather explore what was underneath Kiriya, such as his feelings for his friend Jungo who died in an accident, or what he wanted to tell Emu who believed in him.
永夢にも僕にも伝わったよ！12話ってサブタイトルに「クリスマス特別編」って入ってたし、完成した映像を見たら、前半はエグゼイドたちがサンタのコスチュームになったりして楽しい雰囲気だったのに……最後にあんなことになるなんてね……。
Iijima: It was transmitted to Emu and me! Episode 12 was subtitled "Christmas Special", and when I saw the finished video, the first half had a fun atmosphere with Ex-Aid in a Santa costume… I can't believe it ended like that...
オープニングなしに本編が始まって、ますちょっと不穏な空気が流れたけどね。すぐにクリスマスの楽しい感じがそれを打ち消した….と思ったら、貴利矢と黎斗のシーンになって、そこから一気に "GAME OVER" まで描かれて。「まさか」と思った方が多かったんじゃないかな。確かに前週の予告から貴利矢が危ないのを匂わせてたけど、「でもきっと助かるんだよね？」って予想した方もいただろうし。
Onozuka: It was a little disconcerting, though, when the episode started without the opening. Soon, the joyous feeling of Christmas overcame that... But then we got to the scene between Kiriya and Kuroto, and from there it was all "GAME OVER". I guess a lot of people thought, "No way". It's true that there was a hint that Kiriya was in danger from the previous week's preview, but there were also people who thought, "But he'll be okay, right?"
クリスマス当日のオンエアだったから、プレゼントで仮面ライダーレーザーのおもちゃをもらったお子さんとか、相当ショックだったはず……。
Iijima: It was on air on Christmas day, so it must have been quite a shock for children who received Kamen Rider Lazer toys as gifts...
僕も心が痛い。まさに甥っ子が、貴利矢が消えるのを見てテレビの前で震えてたらしいから。
Onozuka: My heart hurt, too. It seems my nephew was shaking in front of the TV when he saw Kiriya disappear.
ガシャコンスパロー (レーザーの武器) のおもちゃを持っているお子さんを何人も見たもん。貴利矢とレーザーは本当に愛されてるね。
Iijima: I've seen many children with Gashacon Sparrow (Lazer's weapon) toys. Kiriya and Lazer are really well-loved.
うれしいなぁ。本編ではスパローがゲンムの武器になってしまったけどね。まったくゲンムのやつ、勝手に使うなよなー (笑)!
Onozuka: I'm happy. In the main story, the Sparrow has become Genm's weapon. Don't use it without permission, Genm (laughs)!
(笑)
Iijima: (laughs)
永夢が貴利矢を変えた
Emu changed Kiriya
勇人くんの話を聞いたり、インタビュー記事を読むと、貴利矢についてものすごく考えているのがわかる。監察医についてもちゃんと調べているよね。
Iijima: When you listen to Hayato-kun's stories and read his interviews, you can see that he is thinking a lot about Kiriya. You're also doing a lot of research on medical examiners.
監察医は犯罪性のある遺体を扱う司法解剖と、突然死とか犯罪性のない遺体を扱う行政解剖で担当が分かれてるんだって。貴利矢はおそらく行政解剖の監察医で、謎のある死体を解剖するうちに、バグスターウイルスの存在に突き当たった....というバックボーンを考えてた。行動は監察医というより探偵みたいだったけどね (苦笑)。でも貴利矢が真相に迫ることで黎斗が動き出して、永夢も動いた。
Onozuka: Medical examiners are divided into two groups: those who do judicial autopsies for criminals and those who do administrative autopsies for sudden deaths and non-criminals. Kiriya was probably an administrative medical examiner, and while dissecting a mysterious corpse, he stumbled upon the existence of the bugster virus… I was thinking of his backstory. He acted more like a detective than a medical examiner, though (chuckle). But when Kiriya got to the bottom of it, Kuroto made his move, and so did Emu.
ストーリーを動かす役だよね。そのなかで勇人くんの表情のお芝居が印象的だったな。登場した頃はぎこちない笑顔だったり。
Iijima: It's a role that drives the story. I was impressed by Hayato-kun's facial expressions in the show. When he first appeared, he had an awkward smile.
人間、嘘をつくときはこんな感じ、と意識して左右非対称の表情をしたり、相手と目を合わせないようにした。貴利矢ってさ、嘘をつくのがうまそうに見せて....。
Onozuka: I made a conscious effort to make asymmetrical facial expressions and avoid eye contact with the person I was lying to. Kiriya, you could at least try to look like a good liar...
下手だよね (笑)。
Iijima: He's not very good at it (laughs).
そう (笑)。根本は不器用。淳吾にゲーム病だと告げて、動揺させて事故死させてしまった。だから正直が必ずしもいいことではないと思って、言動がちょっとずつ歪んでしまったんだろうね。他人に対して距離をいて壁をつくって、利用できそうな人には噛をつくようになって、永夢に出達うまではそれが当たり前になってた。自分を責めて「嘘をつかなきゃ」と思い込むあたり、根は真っ直ぐな人間だよね。
Onozuka: Yes (laughs). His heart isn't in it. He told Jungo that he had a game disease, which upset him and caused his accidental death. That's why he thinks that honesty is not always a good thing, and his words and actions have gradually become distorted. He distanced himself from other people, put up walls, and began to bite people who he thought he could use, and that was the norm until he met Emu. He blames himself and thinks that he has to lie, but he's a straightforward person at heart.
永夢だけはその本性に気づいたというか。飛彩と大我は、貴利矢を信用しきれていなかったけど。
Iijima: Only Emu realized his true nature. Hiiro and Taiga couldn't fully trust Kiriya.
7話で貴利矢がゲンムの正体は黎斗だと告げて、それを証明しようとしたら、パラドが入れ替わったことでね。あれでさらに信用を失った。
Onozuka: In episode 7, when Kiriya told them that Genm's true identity was Kuroto, and he tried to prove it, Parad switched places with him. That made him lose more credibility.
飛彩に「こいつの言葉に真実などひとつもない」と決めつけられて、永夢にも「本当のあなたはどこにいるんですか」と問いかけられて。
Iijima: Hiiro declared, "There is no truth in his words," and Emu asked him, "Where is the real you?"
あそこからだよね、貴利矢が変わっていったの一は始をつく年月を重ねるに従って、貴利矢自身も本当の自分がどこにいるのかわからなくなってたんだよ。でも永夢の言葉が心に響いて、自分を見つめ直して変えるきっかけになった。話数としては少なかったけど、永夢を信じるに至る要素はちゃんと織り込まれているから、俺は納得しながら演じてた。貴利矢は「なぜ永夢は、他人のことをこんなに信じられるんだろう」と感じてい たようだけど、昔の自分を投影したのかもね。
Onozuka: That's when things started to change for Kiriya... As the years went by, Kiriya didn't know where he really was. But Emu's words touched his heart and gave him a chance to look at himself and change. There were only a few episodes, but the elements that led him to believe in Emu were woven into the story, so I played the role with conviction. It seems that Kiriya was wondering "How can Emu believe in others so much?", but maybe he was projecting his old self.
「自分も普は、あんな風に人を信じていたよな」って感じに？
Iijima: "I used to believe in people like that, too." Something like that?
そう。だからこそ11話で、永夢に面と向かって「あなたのことは信じない」と言われたときはかなりのショックを受けたよ (苦笑)。それをフッと笑って流すのが、不器用な貴利矢らしいけど。
Onozuka: That's right. That's why he was so shocked in episode 11 when Emu told him to his face, "I don't believe you" (laughs). But it's just like the awkward Kiriya to laugh it off.
あの表情もよかった。永夢を見ることができずに片頼だけで笑ってるのが、本当に不器用で。その後初めて「名人」じゃなくて「永夢」と呼んだときの照れた笑いも好きだよ。
Iijima: I liked that expression too. It was really awkward that he couldn't look at Emu and only smiled with one hand. I also liked the embarrassed laugh when he called him "Emu" instead of "ace" for the first time after that.
おう (照)。やっと信じてもらえたのに、単独行動をした結果がね…。振り返ると哀しい男だねぇ。
Onozuka: Oh (shy). Emu finally believed in him, but he acted alone... Looking back, he's a sad man.
永夢以外も貴利矢のことを信用してほしかった。
Iijima: I wanted people other than Emu to trust Kiriya.
でも永夢が信じてくれて、ゲーマドライバーとガシャットに込めた想いを託すことができたし、何よ一り「笑顔でいろ」って言葉を伝えられたからさ。 僕は、貴利矢は救われたと思ってるよ。
Onozuka: But Emu believed in him, and he was able to entrust him with the feelings he put into his Game Driver and his Gashat, and above all, he was able to tell him to keep smiling. I believe that Kiriya was saved.
僕も、そうあってほしい。
Iijima: I believe so as well.
永夢と貴利矢になっていく
Becoming Emu and Kiriya
永夢とふたりで向き合うシーンが多かったけど、いつも「貴利矢なら永夢にどうする？」を考えて演じてた。たとえば7話で、永夢の襟首をつかんで「告知には細心注意を払え」「真実が人の人生を狂わせることだってある」って凄んだ後、ハッと気づいて永夢の服を整えるところとか。貴利矢は過去の自分を思い出して感情を爆発させるんだけど、あれって、要は自分の後悔を当たり散らしていただけというか。
Onozuka: There were many scenes where he and Emu faced each other, but I always thought "What would Kiriya do to Emu?". For example, in episode 7, he grabbed Emu by the collar and told him to be very careful with announcements and that the truth can ruin people's lives, and then he suddenly realized what he was doing and adjusted Emu's clothes. Kiriya reminisced about his past and exploded with emotions, but I think he was just venting his regrets.
過去の自分に怒ってるんだ。
Iijima: He's angry at his past.
そう。だから爆発したことが恥ずかしくなって、すぐに平静に戻った。貴利矢は嘘が介在していれば、感情をコントロールできるからね。そんな風に考えながら演じていたけど、寛騎が演じる永夢だからこそ引き出された利矢っていうものがたくさんあった。寛騎が貴利矢の心の奥を見ようとする永夢を演じてくれたから、貴利矢が嘘をつき続けられなくなったんだよ。
Onozuka: Yes. That's why he felt embarrassed that he exploded and quickly returned to normalcy. Kiriya can control his emotions as long as there is a lie involved. That's what I was thinking as I played the role, but there were many things about Kiriya that were brought out only because Emu was played by Hiroki. Because Hiroki played the role of Emu who tried to see into the depths of Kiriya's heart, Kiriya couldn't continue to tell lies.
やったぁ (喜)。
Iijima: Yay!
寛騎はもはや、私生活でも永夢っぼいしね。すぐつまずくとこころとか (笑)。
Onozuka: Hiroki has become a bit like Emu in his personal life as well. The way he stumbles so quickly (laughs).
最近、みんなに言われる (笑)! 利樹には顔まで永夢になってるって言われたし。いい意味で永夢と一体化したんだと思いたいけど。そう言う勇人くんも貴利矢っぽいよね。
Iijima: Recently, everyone tells me that (laughs)! Toshiki told me that even my face looks like Emu. I want to think that I've become one with Emu in a good way. Hayato-kun has also become like Kiriya.
マジで？
Onozuka: Seriously?
ベラベラ適当なことを言うこともあるけど(笑)、考え方がしっかりしてる。貴利矢と同じ "大人" だな、と。特に言葉の引き出しが多いところは見習いたい。適当なことを言うのは見習わないけど (笑)。
Iijima: He sometimes says random things (laughs), but he has a solid way of thinking. You're an "adult" just like Kiriya. I want to learn from you, especially the fact that you have a lot of things to say. I don't want to learn how to say random things, though (laughs).
みんなが「本当?」って素直な反応をくれるから、引っかけたくなるんだよね。特に利樹とか(笑)。貴利矢に影響されて口先で他人を "乗せたく" なってるのかも。自制しないと！
Onozuka: Everyone responds honestly "Is it true?" so you want to mess with them, especially Toshiki (laughs). Maybe I'm being influenced by Kiriya and want to "take others for a ride" with my words. I have to control myself!
嘘ばかりつくと、本当のことを言っても信じてもらえなくなっちゃうよ？
Iijima: If you lie all the time, people won't believe you when you tell them the truth, right?
そうなんだよ。本当のことを話してても、「また嘘なんでしょ?」って探られると、つい不自然に笑っちゃうんだよね。やばい。本当の自分がどこにいるかわからなくなってる (笑)。
Onozuka: That's right. Even when I'm telling the truth, I tend to laugh unnaturally when someone probes me and says, "You're lying again, aren't you?" Oh no. I don't know where my real self is anymore (laughs).
ほら、貴利矢に近づいてる (笑)。それにしても永夢の「本当のあなたは……」って問いかけは、貴利矢にとってターニングボイントになったんだね。
Iijima: See, you're getting closer to Kiriya (laughs). Anyway, Emu's question, “Where is the real you…?” was a turning point for Kiriya.
貴利矢はシャイだから、信じてもらいたいんだけど「信じてよ」って言葉や態度に出せない。7話で黎斗とパラドのおかげで信用を失ったときだって、すぐに「ホントなんだよ、信じてよ」「自分は見たんだよ」って訴えればいいじゃん。だけどできなかった。それと人より優位に立ちたいというか、余裕があるように見せたいんだろうね。結局はそれができなくて、その後、永夢の言葉に考え込むんだけど「人を信じるってどういうことだっけ」って、振り返るきっかけになったのは確かだね。
Onozuka: Kiriya is shy, so he wants people to believe in him, but he can't say "please believe me" or show it in his attitude. In episode 7, when he lost credibility thanks to Kuroto and Parad, he should've just said "It's true, please believe me" or "I really saw it". But he couldn't. Also, I guess he wanted to be superior to others, or maybe he wanted to look like he could afford to be. In the end, he couldn't do that, and afterwards, he pondered over Eimu's words, but it certainly gave him a chance to reflect on what it means to trust people.
また「乗せられる」日を
Looking forward to the day when I can "ride" again
僕たちキャストも、「エグゼイド」を見てくださっている方たちも、貴利矢を絶対に忘れない。感謝祭でステージに立ったときも声援がすごかったよね。
Iijima: The cast and I, as well as the people who watch "Ex-Aid", will never forget Kiriya. When you stood on the stage at the Thanksgiving Festival, the cheers were amazing.
驚きの声だったんじゃない？「GAME OVERになったヤツがいる!」って。
Onozuka: Wasn't that a surprised voice? "There's a guy who's supposed to be GAME OVER!"
貴利矢みたいなシャイ発言しないでよ (笑)。
Iijima: Don't make shy remarks like Kiriya (laughs).
(笑)。皆さんが役を愛してくださっているんだなって実感したよ。正直、13話では悲しんでくれるだろうけど、次からは貴利矢のことを忘れて話が展開するのかな……って不安だった。でも、そうはならなくて貴利矢が残したものがひとつひとつ積み重なって、その後の物語にもつながっていくのが本当にうれしい。貴利矢が黎斗に消されたのは真相をつかんだから。残したモノは後々になって大きな意味を持ってくると思う。
Onozuka: (laughs). I realized that you all love your roles. To be honest, I was worried that they would be sad in episode 13, but from the next episode, they would forget about Kiriya and the story would resume... But I'm really glad that it didn't turn out that way, and that the things that Kiriya left behind are piling up one by one, leading to the story that follows. The reason why Kiriya was erased by Kuroto is because he got to the truth. I think the things he left behind will have a great meaning later on.
忘れないよ。貴利矢の存在や想いは、ずっと永夢の心の支えになっていくんだから。永夢が忘れないから、皆さんも忘れないよ。
Iijima: I won't forget him. Kiriya's presence and thoughts will always be the support of Emu's heart. Emu will never forget him, so everyone will remember him.
おう (照)。
Onozuka: Aw (shy).
でも永夢がどんな運命をたどっていくかは、まったくわからないな。18話でゲーム病であることを宣告されて、19話ではゲームをしてないのにゲーマーMの性格になったりしたけど……。
Iijima: But I have no idea what kind of fate will befall Emu. He was revealed to have game disease in episode 18, and in episode 19 he became Gamer M even though he wasn't playing games...
貴利矢が接していた永夢は、どこか抜けていて、医者としても未熟な部分があったけど、未熟だし純粋だからこその魅力があるんだよね。社会に出るといろいろなことがあって、うまく他人とつき合えなかったり、裏切られたり、試練をクリアできず打ちのめされていくうちに、閉鎖的になっていく。だけど永夢は逆というか、試練に遭って、思うようにいかず落ち込むことはあっても、開き直って行動して、患者や触れ合った人の心を浄化させていく。
Onozuka: The Emu that Kiriya came into contact with was somewhat out of touch and inexperienced as a doctor, but because he was immature and pure, he had a certain charm. When you go out into the world, there are many things that can happen to you, and as you are unable to get along with others, or are betrayed, or can't complete your trials and tribulations, you become closed off. However, Emu is the opposite. Even though he is depressed when he encounters trials and things don't go his way, he acts with resilience and purifies the hearts of his patients and people he comes in contact with.
これからも、予想もできないような試練が襲ってくるんだろうね。
Iijima: I'm sure there will be more unpredictable challenges to come.
それは仕方ない。ヒーローの宿命だよ。どんなことがあっても、自分で努力をしながら周りの手を借りて、乗り越えていってほしい。他人を信じて浄化する永夢のままでいてほしい。そういう想いで、貴利矢はゲーマドライバーとガシャットを渡したんだから。
Onozuka: It's inevitable. It's the fate of a hero. No matter what happens, I want him to overcome it with the help of the people around him while making your own efforts. I want him to remain an Emu who believes in others and purifies them. It was with this in mind that Kiriya gave him his Game Driver and Gashat.
貴利矢と勇人くんが永夢と僕にくれたものを糧にして、人間としても役者としても成長していきたい。そして永夢が成長した姿を、貴利矢に見てほしい。そのときは「貴利矢さんに乗せられちゃいましたよ」って言いたいな。
Iijima: I want to grow as a person and as an actor by using what Kiriya and Hayato-kun gave to Emu and me. And I want Kiriya to see how Emu has grown. At that time, I want to say to him, "Kiriya-san has taken me for a ride."
また貴利矢の姿を見せられる日が来ることを、期待したいね…。そのときは僕も「乗せられちゃった？」って言いながら帰って来たい。
Onozuka: I'm hoping that the day will come when I can see Kiriya again... I'd like to come back saying, "Did I get carried away?"
聞きたい!
Iijima: I want to hear it!