Interview 10 from Character Book Level.2

Hojo Emu/Kamen Rider Ex-Aid and Kujo Kiriya/Kamen Rider Lazer Turbo have a strong relationship of trust even after Kiriya is revived as a bugster, says Onozuka Hayato. However, Iijima Hiroki's perception seems to be a little different...? Where did Emu and Kiriya's feelings differ? The two actors speak in earnest.

貴利矢の嘘の怖さ

Kiriya’s scary lies

永夢と貴利矢の関係は、最後までブレなかったよね。

Onozuka: The relationship between Emu and Kiriya didn't shake until the end.

当初は、ずっと一緒に行動していく相棒になるのかと思ったくらいだから、信頼できる仲間だってことに変わりはないけど。永夢の中での関係性は微妙に変化した。

Iijima: At first, I thought they would be partners that would be working together all the time, though it doesn’t change the fact that they're still close comrades. However, the relationship in Emu's mind has subtly changed.

貴利矢にとっては一貫して信頼すべき仲間だったんだけどな。

Onozuka: For Kiriya, he's been a consistent and trustworthy companion.

貴利矢がいない間にいろいろあったし、パラドとの関係も変わってきたから。

Iijima: A lot has happened while Kiriya was away, and his relationship with Parad has changed.

確かに永夢から見た役割は変わったかもしれない。永夢はパラドと協力してクロノスを倒さなければならなかったわけだし、貴利矢は貴利矢で、CR（電脳救命センター）でやるべきことがあったし。永夢とパラドが相棒関係になってからも、貴利矢一の目的は変わらなかった。復活してからも、監察医の自分にしかできないことを全うする必要があったからね。終盤は、バグスターになった貴利矢にしか解決できない難題も出てきたけどさ。いずれにしても、人々をゲーム病から救うという目的にブレはない。

Onozuka: It is true that the role from Emu's point of view may have changed. Emu had to work with Parad to defeat Cronus, and Kiriya had his own things to do at CR. Even after Emu and Parad became partners, Kiriya's purpose did not change. Even after he was resurrected, he still had to fulfill what only he, the medical examiner, could do. Toward the end, though, there were some difficult problems that only the bugster Kiriya could solve. In any case, the goal of saving people from game disease remains unchanged.

戦う手段は違っても、ふたりの目標は一つだったね。

Iijima: Even though they fought in different ways, they had the same goal in mind.

そこは最後まで変わらなかった。

Onozuka: That didn't change until the end.

そう考えると、やっぱり貴利矢の中での関係は一貫してたんだ。

Iijima: With that in mind, the relationship remained consistent for Kiriya.

永夢は違うんでしょ (笑)?

Onozuka: It's different for Emu, isn't it (laughs)?

だって貴利矢は一時期、檀正宗側についていたでしょ。

Iijima: Because for a while, Kiriya was on the side of Dan Masamune.

見せかけてただけじゃん。なに、「ノーセられちゃった?」。

Onozuka: He was just pretending to be. Y'know, “did I take you for a ride?”

使い方がうまい (笑)。貴利矢にブレがないのはわかってた。貴利矢の嘘にはちゃんと意味があったってことが35話でわかったから。勇人くんはたまにヘーゼンと嘘を言うけどね (笑)。

Iijima: He's good at doing that (laughs). I knew that Kiriya would never let himself be brainwashed. In episode 35, we found out that Kiriya's lies had a real meaning. Although sometimes Hayato-kun tells lies for fun (laughs).

（爆笑）!!

Onozuka: (laughs)!!

でも35話で真実を知るまでは、永夢は貴利矢の言葉に傷ついてたんだよ。復活したばかりの頃はどっちの味方かわからないし、それまで貴利矢さんの遺志を継いでいる気になっていたのに、「おまえにはがっココた」なんて言われたらもう...! あの時は、部活で「おまえはこの2年間何してきたんだ!?」って怒られてる高校生の気分だったよ。

Iijima: But until he learned the truth in episode 35, Emu was hurt by Kiriya's words. When he first came back, he didn't know whose side he was on, and up until that point he felt like he was carrying on Kiriya's wishes, but then he was told, "I'm disappointed in you"...! At that time, I felt like a high school student who was being chastised in club activities, "What have you been doing for the past two years!?"

「おまえにキャプテンの座を渡したのに、こんな風になりやがって!」みたいな感じ (笑)？

Onozuka: "I handed you the captain's seat, and now the club is like this!" It felt like that? (laughs)

身近な例で言えば、そう (笑)。

Iijima: To use a familiar example, yes (laughs).

人の命を預かってるわけだから、責任は数倍大きいわけだけどね。

Onozuka: They're in charge of people's lives, so the responsibility is several times greater.

とにかく永夢は傷ついたってこと。

Iijima: Anyway, it means that Emu was hurt.

俺もね檀正宗をだますためとはいえ、「よくもあんな言葉をズバズバ言えるな」って思いながら演じていたけど。

Onozuka: Even though he was playing the role to fool Dan Masamune, I was thinking, "How can he say such words out loud?"

でしょう!? なかなか言えないよあんなひどい言葉。

Iijima: Right!? It's hard to say such a terrible thing.

貴利矢も必死だったから。

Onozuka: Because Kiriya was desperate, too.

「仮面ライダーエグゼイド」のメンバーは、みんなスパルタだよね。

Iijima: The characters of "Kamen Rider Ex-Aid" are all Spartan, aren't they?

うん、容赦ない。でもだからこそ、真実を知ってからの結束が深まったとも取れるんじゃない？

Onozuka: Yeah, they're merciless. But that's why it can be said that the unity after knowing the truth has deepened, hasn't it?

それは言えてる。仲間を疑ったっていう事実は消せないけど (笑)。

Iijima: That's true. I can't erase the fact that I doubted my friends, though (laughs).

貴利矢は12話で、永夢なら人類を救ってくれるかもしれないと信じて、すべてを託しんだよ。貴利矢の方がずっと一途だよね。なんたって最後まで永夢以外の誰もノせなかったわけだし (得意気)!

Onozuka: In episode 12, Kiriya believed that Emu might be able to save humanity and entrusted everything to him. Kiriya is much more single-minded than I am. After all, he didn't let anyone but Emu ride him until the end! (proud)

（爆笑）!!

Iijima: (laughs)!!

終盤は、レーザー自らバイクにまたがってたけど。

Onozuka: At the end Lazer himself got on the bike, though.

そうだよ。あれはどういうこと?

Iijima: That's right. What was that all about?

隠れボタンがあったのかな。俺も「出るのか!!」ってのけぞったから。

Onozuka: I wonder if there was a hidden button. I was so shocked when I saw it.

最初からノればよかったのに (笑)。

Iijima: He should have done it from the beginning (laughs).

（爆笑）!!

Onozuka & Iijima: (laughs)!!

海で育まれた絆?

Bonds forged in the sea?

永夢と貴利矢の絡みって、印象的なシーンが多いよね。

Onozuka: There are many memorable scenes between Emu and Kiriya.

僕は7話が好きだな。

Iijima: I like episode 7.

「患者を救いたいなら信じろ」ってとこ?

Onozuka: "Trust me if you want to save your patients"?

そう、「今度こそ信じさせてくださいよ」って手を組むところ。貴利矢さんとはあそこでグッと近づいたと思うから、今でもすごく好きなシーン。

Iijima: That's right, the part where they join hands and Emu says, "Please let me believe in you this time". I think that's when he got really close to Kiriya-san, so it's still my favorite scene.

貴利矢としては、あそこで本当のことを言っていたんだけど、黎斗とパラドにノせられるというオチがあったからね。

Onozuka: Kiriya was telling the truth there, but he was made a fool of by Kuroto and Parad.

うん、だからしばらくは、貴利矢の人間性に半信半疑だった。またすれ違ってしまったよね。

Iijima: Yeah, so for a while, Emu was skeptical of Kiriya's honesty. They were at odds again.

「あれ、ノセられちゃった？」ってセリフはあそこで初めて出てきた。でもあの時の「ノセられちゃった？」は、復活してからとは意味合いが違って。

Onozuka: That was the first time he said the line, "Did I take you for a ride?". But at that time, it had a different meaning than after the revival.

今思うと、哀しいセリフだったよね。

Iijima: Now that I think about it, that was a sad line.

あれは貴利矢の目一杯の強がりだからね。でもそれがあったからこそ、36話で言った同じセリフが生きた。後者は作戦が成功して、真相を暴く時の余裕のセリフ。

Onozuka: That was Kiriya's way of showing his full strength. But it was because of that that the same line he said in episode 36 came alive. The latter is the line he said when the mission was successful and he was ready to reveal the truth.

あのシーンもよかったなあ。

Iijima: That scene was also good.

前半ときれいにつながったし、物語の流れが変わったから、達成感もひとしおだった。

Onozuka: It connected nicely with the first half and changed the flow of the story, which gave me a great sense of accomplishment.

36話でも使われた35話ラストの海のシーンは、撮影自体が忘れられないよ。大変だったけど (断言)!

Iijima: I'll never forget the sea scene at the end of episode 35, which was also used in episode 36. It was hard!

はあのシーン、自分的には誤算だった (笑)。

Onozuka: That scene was a miscalculation on my part (laughs).

どういうこと？

Iijima: What do you mean?

貴利矢の不意打ちを食らって、永夢が海に落ちるじゃん。あの後の一連のシーンって、やりようによっては俺まで海に入る必要はなかったんだよね。

Onozuka: You know how Emu falls into the sea after being taken by surprise by Kiriya? The scene that followed didn't require me to go into the sea too, depending on how it was done.

僕はずっと海の中にいたのに (笑)。

Iijima: I was in the water the whole time (laughs).

そうだたったね。でも貴利矢は、そのまま浜辺を歩いて戻れば濡れずに済んだし、それでもよかったはず。だから本番前は、「絶対に浜辺コースで帰る!」って決めてたんだけと....。

Onozuka: Yes, that's right, but Kiriya could have just walked back along the beach and not gotten wet, which would have been fine. Before the show I decided "I'll definitely take the beach course and go home!"...

コース (笑)!

Iijima: Course (laughs)!

でも、5月の海は風がまだ冷たかったけど、水自体はそれほどでもなかったし。寛騎はずっと濡れて頑張ってたから、「ここは俺も気合入れて落ちとくか」って。

Onozuka: The wind was still cold in the sea in May, but the water itself was not so bad. Since Hiroki had been wet all the time and was working hard, I thought, "I'd better get myself in the water too."

(爆笑)!!

Iijima: (Laughs)!!

画的にもよかったでしょ (笑)?

Onozuka: Wasn't that a good picture? (laughs)

今だから言うけど、僕も勇人くんを海に落としたくてウズウズしてた (笑)。

Iijima: I'll say this now, but I was also itching to pull Hayato-kun into the sea (laughs).

(爆笑)!!

Onozuka: (Laughs)!!

終盤はあまり一緒のシーンがなかったから、ちょっとさみしかった。

Iijima: I was a little sad because we didn't have many scenes together at the end of the show.

一緒にいても、コミカルなシーンが多かった気がする。

Onozuka: Even when we were together, I think we had many comical scenes.

貴利矢は黎斗といることが増えたから、仕方ないよ。

Iijima: Kiriya has been spending more and more time with Kuroto, so it can't be helped.

41話のシーンで、残念ながら採用されなかったけど、すごい奇跡が起きたの覚えてる？黎斗がハイパームテキにセーブ機能をつけようとしていた時。

Onozuka: Remember that scene in episode 41 that unfortunately didn't get used, but an amazing miracle happened? When Kuroto was trying to add a save function to Hyper Muteki.

僕がVRゴーグルみたいなのをつけられて、ベッドに寝てた場面？黎斗が開発作業に命を削りすぎてゲームオーバーしまくってた (笑)。

Iijima: The scene where I was lying on the bed with some kind of VR goggles on? Kuroto died too much from overwork and he got a game over (laughs).

そう！あそこで黎斗と軽い言い合いをしながら紙飛行機を投げたら、それが永夢のこめかみあたりにいい感じの角度で突き刺さって (笑)。

Onozuka: Yes! I threw a paper airplane while having a light argument with Kuroto there, and it pierced Emu's temple at a nice angle (laughs).

思い出した (笑)。

Iijima: I remember (laughs).

黎斗と貴利矢の不毛なやりとりに、関係ない永夢が巻き込まれている構図が妙におもしろくて、大爆笑した覚えがある。シリアスなシーンが続いてた時期だっただけに、いい刺激になったよ。

Onozuka: I remember laughing out loud because I found it strangely amusing that Emu, who had nothing to do with it, was caught up in the sterile exchange between Kuroto and Kiriya. It was a good stimulus at a time when there were a lot of serious scenes.

NG集とかに入れてほしい (笑)。現場も楽しかったしね。僕はケーブルでつながれていて動けなかったけど、勇人くんとてっちゃんが好きに動いてるのが感じられた。

Iijima: I want it to be included in the bloopers or something (laughs). The scene was fun. I couldn't move because I was connected to cables, but I could feel that Hayato-kun and Tecchan were moving as they pleased.

一緒にレベルアップしていきたい

Let's level up together

寛騎がすごい勢いで成長していく姿を、俺は目で見て肌で感じてきたわけだけど、39話、40話の永夢は、演技の質がそれまでとは明らかに違ってたよね。

Onozuka: I've seen and experienced firsthand how Hiroki has grown at an incredible rate, but the quality of Emu's acting in episodes 39 and 40 was clearly different from the previous episodes.

本当に!?

Iijima: Really!?

あの2話だけでも、頼りなかった研修医が土壇場で自分をコントロールできる優秀な医師になった、という永夢の成長が垣間見られたし、それ以上に絶妙な表情一がすごくよかった。

Onozuka: In those two episodes alone, I was able to catch a glimpse of Emu's growth from an unreliable intern to an excellent doctor who can control himself at the last minute, and even more than that, I really liked his exquisite facial expressions.

上堀内監督が引き出してくれたんだと思う。

Iijima: I think Director Kamihoriuchi brought out the best in me.

感情表現も絶妙だったよ。人間の感情って、喜怒哀楽の4パターンだけじゃなくて、それぞれの中間や混じり合ったような感情もあるわけだけど、そういった微一妙な表情の質が高くて。

Onozuka: The range of emotions was also exquisite. Human emotions are not just the four patterns of joy, anger, sorrow, and pleasure, but there are also emotions in between and mixed emotions, and the quality of these subtle expressions was high.

屋上で撮ったパラドとのシーンかな？パラドが子どもみたいに感情をむき出しにしていたから、僕はむしろそれを見守る大」人の気持ちで挑んだ。怒りはもちろんあったけど、大人の対応で命の大切さをパラドに理解させたくて。

Iijima: Was it the scene with Parad on the rooftop? Parad bared his emotions like a child, so I took on the challenge as if I were a big person watching over him. Of course I was angry, but I wanted Parad to understand the importance of life in an adult way.

愛があって突き放している感じが本当によかった。あと水に潜ったシーンもね。寛騎が役者として持っている秀でた部分が見事に出ていたよ。

Onozuka: I really liked the feeling of love and detachment. I also liked the scene where Emu dove into the water. It really showed off what Hiroki is capable of as an actor.

頑張ったかいがあった！僕は35話の勇人くんの表情がお気に入りだよ。

Iijima: I did my best! I like the expression on Hayato-kun's face in episode 35.

海辺のシーンの？

Onozuka: In the seaside scene?

そう。永夢が殴った後、微笑んでいるようでいて、そうではないようにも見える微妙な顔をしていたでしょ。あの何とも言えない表情が忘れられない。

Iijima: Yes. After Emu hit you, you had a subtle look on your face, like you were smiling but not smiling at the same time. I can't forget that indescribable expression.

敵とも味方ともとれるような?

Onozuka: Like he could be an enemy or an ally?

あの時点では、永夢以外の誰も、貴利矢が敵なのか味方なのかわからないでしょ？あの表情を見たら「どっち!?」ってなると思った。

Iijima: At that point, no one but Emu could know if Kiriya was an enemy or a friend, right? When I saw his expression, I thought, "Which is it!?"

あそこは永夢がノッてくれて「なかなかやるじゃん」という気持ちや、永夢の成長を見られてうれしい気持ちに、敵側でもおかしくないような印象を入れつつ演じてみた。「エグゼイド」のファンの方たちは勘が良すぎて、普通に演じていたらだませないからね。

Onozuka: Emu knocked him down and I thought "He's pretty good", so I tried to give off the impression that it wasn't strange to be happy about Emu's growth even on the enemy side. The fans of "Ex-Aid" are too intuitive to be fooled by a normal performance.

ニタっと笑ってしまうと、完全に敵っぼくなっちゃうしね。

Iijima: If you smirked, he'd look like a complete enemy.

そういうこと。

Onozuka: Exactly.

勇人くんの芝居は安定感があるから、すごくやりやすいよ。なんていうか、肝が一据わってていい感じ。

Iijima: Your acting is very stable, so it's very easy to work with. Somehow, it's a good feeling to have a strong heart.

何それ (笑)。

Onozuka: What's that mean (laughs).

現場にひとり勇人くんみたいな役者さんがいると、安心できるというか。

Iijima: You feel at ease when there is an actor like Hayato-kun on the scene.

そう？俺、裏では結構ふざけてたと思うけど。

Onozuka: Really? I think I was pretty playful behind the scenes.

ふざけているなかでも、ズンと根を張ってブレないという安心感があった。土台のない状態からスタートした僕は、長い間幹が定まらなかったんだけど、勇人くんがいてくれたおかげで、安心してもがくことができた。

Iijima: Even when you were joking around, you gave off a sense of security that was firmly rooted and would not waver. I started without a foundation, and for a long time I couldn't settle on a base, but thanks to Hayato-kun's presence, I was able to struggle with peace of mind.

俺は逆に、そうやってもがき続ける寛騎の姿を見て刺激をもらっていたよ。

Onozuka: On the contrary, I was inspired by watching Hiroki struggle like that.

そうなの？

Iijima: Is that so?

まだ芝居のブランも土台もない頃から、4、5人の監督にたくさんのリクエストを出されて、それでも前向きに答えを出そうとしている寛騎を見ているうちに、初心に帰ることができた。俺は「エグゼイド」に出演する以前に舞台や小劇場、映像の経験があったといっても、自分のやり方がようやくわかってきたかなという程度の役者。固まったり、余裕をかましていられる時期じゃない。でも、寛騎の純粋な芝居心に触れるうちにそのことに気づくことができたし、経験者ぶらず、毎回挑戦するつもりでやろうという気持ちを持ち続けることができた。そういう意味でも、寛騎からたくさんの影響を受けたと思う。

Onozuka: I was able to go back to the beginning as I watched Hiroki trying to come up with a positive answer to the many requests he was given by four or five directors when he still had no brand or foundation for his acting. Even though I had experience on stage, in small theaters, and on film before appearing in "Ex-Aid," I was still an actor who was just beginning to understand how to do things my own way. It's not the time to freeze up or be complacent. I was able to realize this as I came into contact with Hiroki's pure theatrical spirit, and I was able to maintain the feeling of challenging myself every time without pretending to be an experienced actor. In that sense, I think Hiroki has influenced me a lot.

僕は一番下からのスタートだったから、みんなからもらった刺激を無駄にしないように頑張ろうと。「自分も負けてはいられない！」って、そういうところで負けず嫌い根性を発揮していたかな。

Iijima: I started from the very bottom, so I tried my best not to waste the stimulation I received from everyone. "I can't afford to lose!" I think that's where I showed my competitive spirit.

45年もの歴史を持つ飯面ライダーシリーズを背負って立たなきゃいけないというプレッシャーもあったと悪うけど、よく頑悪たよな。

Onozuka: I'm sure you were under a lot of pressure to carry the 45 year old Kamen Rider series on your back, but you did a great job.

みんなのおかげです (照)。

Iijima: It was all thanks to everyone.

寛騎にとっても俺にとっても、「仮面ライダーエグゼイド」は一生背負っていく肩書きのひとつになるはずだから、今後もその経歴に恥じないよう、長い俳優生活を盛り上げていきたいね。

Onozuka: For both Hiroki and I, "Kamen Rider Ex-Aid" will be one of the titles that we will carry with us for the rest of our lives, so I hope that we can continue to live up to that career and make our long acting careers more exciting.

うん!

Iijima: Yes!

長く続けていけばそれだけ波に、まれると思うけど、お互い芯をしっかり持ちつつ俳優活動を続けるうちに、いつかどこかで共演できたら最高だよね。

Onozuka: I think that if you continue acting for a long time, you will get caught up in the waves, but I think it would be great if we could work together someday as we both continue acting while maintaining a strong core.

うん！...言おうと思っていたことを勇人くんに全部言われちゃった…。

Iijima: Yeah! ...Everything I was going to say was said by Hayato-kun...

(爆笑)!!

Onozuka: (Laughs)!!

今後も刺激を与え合って、お互いどんどんレベルアップしていきたいね。

Iijima: I hope we can continue to inspire each other and improve each other's skills.

永夢じゃない寛騎と貴利矢じゃい俺で何かやれたらすごく楽しそう!

Onozuka: I think it would be really fun if Hiroki (not Emu) and I (not Kiriya) could do something together!

逆の立場もあるかもしれないし

Iijima: It could be the other way around!

次は寛騎がアロハ着てたり？

Onozuka: Next time Hiroki will be wearing an aloha shirt?

それ、いいね (爆笑)！

Iijima: That's a good idea (laughs)!

RETURN