Zi-O Next Time Cast Interview 2
Kaitou Daiki, who showed his unique character and position in the "Kamen Rider Zi-O" TV series, will also appear in V-Cinext's "Kamen Rider Zi-O Next Time: Gates, Majesty"! How will he perform?
Totani Kimito talks about playing Kaitou Daiki.
敵か味方か海東大樹
Kaitou Daiki, friend or foe?
—テレビシリーズに続いて、Vシネクスト「仮面ライダージオウNEXT TIMEゲイツ、マジェスティ」でも海東大樹が大活躍ですね。
Interviewer: Following the TV series, Kaitou Daiki is also very active in the V-Cinext "Kamen Rider Zi-O NEXT TIME Geiz, Majesty".
最終回を迎えて「あぁ、終わったな」と思ったら「じゃあ今度はVシネで」と言われまして (笑)。テレビから始まって、ここまでやると「本当に 帰ってきたな」って感じがします。テレビで門矢士 (つかさ) との関係に決着が一旦ついてますから、Vシネは純粋に楽しんで撮影に参加できました。
Totani: After the last episode, I thought, "Oh, it's over," and they said, "Well, we'll do a V-Cinema this time" (laughs). After starting on TV, I felt like "I'm really back" when I made it this far. Since my relationship with Kadoya Tsukasa was settled in the TV series, I was able to participate in the filming of the V-Cine purely for fun.
—今回はディケイドがいませんからね。
Interviewer: There is no Decade this time.
士がいない分、ノビノビと (笑)。最初に「出番多いよ」って聞いてたんまま素直に海東を演じれば大丈夫ってですけど、ここまでとは思ってなくて (笑)。でも、海東にいいポジションをいただいて、ありがたいことですよね。
Totani: I’m more relaxed since Tsukasa isn’t there (laughs). When I first heard that I would have a lot of screetime, I thought I would be fine as long as I played Kaitou honestly, but I didn't expect it to be this much (laughs). But I am grateful that I was given a good position as Kaitou.
—10年にわたって演じ続けてきたキャラクターですが、その都度、そのように役作りをしていく感じなんですか?
Interviewer: You've been playing this character for 10 years. Do you feel like you have to rethink the role each time you play it?
10年前を思い出して、その後の大樹を演じようという意識は特にありません。台本をもらったらセリフを覚える。純粋にそれだけなんですよ。あとは、自分も海東と同じように10年歳をとったわけだから、今の自分がそのまま素直に海東を演じれば大丈夫って思っています。
Totani: I am not particularly conscious of remembering 10 years ago and trying to play Daiki after that. When I receive a script, I memorize the lines. That's all I do. I am now 10 years older just like Kaitou, so I think I will be fine as long as I play Kaitou as I am now.
—戸谷さんの中では、海東大樹ってイイ者なんですか? ワル者なんですか?
Interviewer: In your opinion, is Kaitou Daiki a good or a bad person?
ん! …..根はきっといいヤツなんでしょうけど、いい人と悪い人って割り切れない人。そういう意味では一番人間っぽいのかなって思うんですよね。何より先を考えるのが苦手なタイブなんです。トラブルが起きると「これをどうしよう?」って考えたりはするんですけど、いつもその場その場の解決方法なんですよね。先のことは わりとどうでもいいと思ってる。だから、失敗もあるし......。「お宝、お宝」 言ってるわりにはそんなに執着もないし。その辺りが大樹の持っている「自由さ」ってことにもつながると思うんですけど。
Totani: Hm! ...I'm sure he's a good guy at heart, but he’s someone who can't be classified as a good or a bad person. In that sense, I think he is the most human-like of all. Above all, he doesn’t like thinking ahead. When a problem arises, he thinks, “What should I do about it?” but he always comes up with a solution on the spot. He doesn't really care about the future. That's why he makes mistakes… Despite all the talk of "treasure, treasure", he’s not that attached to them. I think this is also connected to the "freedom" that Daiki has.
—良すぎず悪すぎず。
Interviewer: Not too good, not too bad.
どちらにも完璧すぎないというか。まあ、たぶん大樹に関してはダメなところが多いけど(笑)。でも、欠点が多いからこそ、俺も感情移入できるんです。いつも思わせ振りなことを言 ったりするけど、実際はそんなに策略家じゃなくて、意外に単純なんじゃないかなって思いますよ。
Totani: Not being either, he’s too perfect. Well, maybe there are many things wrong with Daiki (laughs). But it is because of his many flaws that I am able to empathize with him. He is always saying things that are suggestive, but in reality, I think he is not so scheming and is surprisingly simple-minded.
—単純ゆえに、映画「仮面ライダー×スーパー戦隊スーパーヒーロー大戦」では大変なことになっていましたね (笑)。
Interviewer: Because of this simplicity, he caused a lot of trouble in the movie "Kamen Rider x Super Sentai Super Hero Taisen" (laughs).
ホント単純です。あのときは....お宝に目がくらんでるって思って演じてました。本当にその場その場の欲望に忠実なんです。ただ、あんなこと になったのは士LOVEからの嫉妬心というのも大きいんですよ。
Totani: It's really simple. At the time... He was acting like he was blinded by treasure. He was really loyal to his desires of the moment. However, the jealousy caused by his love of Tsukasa is a big part of why things turned out like that.
—海東の「士」大好き度合いは相当なものですよね。ファンにとっては、そのあたりの関係性も気になるところでしたし。
Interviewer: The degree of Kaitou's love for Tsukasa is considerable. The relationship between the two was a point of interest for fans.
その関係性が、また微妙なで。愛情が屈折しまくってますからね....。「屈折」はしてるんだけど「屈託」はないというキャラクターで。
Totani: Their relationship is very nuanced. His love is so warped… A character that is "warped" but not "carefree."
—そんなキャラはこれまで、仮面ライダーにはいませんでしたよ! (笑)
Interviewer: There has never been such a character in Kamen Rider before! (laughs)
他の作品でもこんな人間あまりいないですよ! (笑) その結果が、 オールライダーとオールスーパー戦隊全員を敵に回すことに繋がるんですから (一同笑)。
Totani: There are not many people like this in other works (laughs)! The result of that was turning all Riders and all Super Sentai into enemies (they both laugh).
—まさかのラスボスで。
Interviewer: He became the final boss.
ちょっとあれは予想がつかなかったですね。台本を見たときにびっくりしましたから。なんで俺がロボットに乗って戦ってんの?って。
Totani: It was a bit unexpected. I was surprised when I saw the script. Why am I fighting on a robot? I thought.
—あの映画でキャラのイメージが際立ったということもありますよね。
Interviewer: The character’s image stood out in that movie.
それと比べたら、今回はだいぶ落ち着いた感じです。珍しく大きく脱線もせずにそこは10年で成長したってことじゃないですかね。
Totani: Compared to that, he seems much calmer this time around. I guess that means he has grown up over the past 10 years without too many unusual deviations.
海東大樹はなんでもアリ
Kaitou Daiki can be anything
—今回、まずびっくりしたのは、いきなり学生服で出てきたところです。
Interviewer: The first thing that surprised me this time was when he suddenly appeared in a school uniform.
俺もびっくりしましたよ! 学校が舞台だということがわかった時点で、先生役だと思ったんですよ。本来なら、そういう世代ですから。それがまさか「学生のほうかい!」って。制服を着るのなんて、だいぶ久しぶりですよ。海東大樹を演じるのが久しぶりなら、高校生なんかもっと久しぶりで、あれはキツいです! (笑)
Totani: I was surprised too! As soon as I found out that it would be a school setting, I thought I would be playing a teacher. That's the generation I'm supposed to be in. But I didn't expect it to be as a student! It's been a long time since I wore a uniform. If it has been a long time since I played Kaitou Daiki, it has been even longer since I played a high school student, so it was tough (laughs)!
—ただ、いつもの海東の有無を言わさぬ感じでグイグイ来てたから、納得させられちゃいました。
Interviewer: But it was convincing because I was giggling with or without the usual Kaitou.
大樹自体は変わらずですよね。慣れない制服を着させられながらも、テレビのまま演じてます。
Totani: Daiki himself remains the same. Although he’s wearing an unfamiliar uniform, he acts the same as he does on TV.
—まったく変わらない?
Interviewer: No change at all?
海東大樹というキャラクターもこの10年間で成長はしてるんですよ。でも、やりたいことと信念は変わらないと思っていて。むしろ、周りの環境が変わってるだけ。ジオウの世界に行こうが、Vシネに行こうが、過去、未来どこにいようが変わらないんです。そこがブレちゃうと、たぶん海東大樹じゃなくなっちゃうんじゃないかな?
むしろ周りの環境が変わってるだけで。その世界によって見え方は変わってくるのかもしれないですけどね。だから、10年経ってもやりづらかったことは特にありませんでした。
Totani: The character of Kaitou Daiki has also grown over the past 10 years. However, I believe that what he wants to do and what he believes in have not changed. Rather, it is just that the environment around him has changed. Whether he goes to the world of Zi-O, V-Cine, the past, or the future, it doesn't matter where he is. If that part becomes blurred, he probably won't be Kaitou Daiki anymore, will he?
It's more the environment around him that has changed. Maybe the way we see things changes depending on the world, though. So there was nothing in particular that was difficult to do even after 10 years.
—テレビとの違いで言えば、サブライダーのまとめ役になっていましたね。ご自身がディエンドに変身することもなかったし。
Interviewer: In terms of differences from TV, this time he was a coordinator for sub-riders. He didn't even transform into Diend himself.
そうなんですよ。でも、変身しなくても違和感はなかったです。ディエンドに関してはもうなんでもアリだと思ってやっていました。いや....そこに関しては何か感覚が麻痺してるの かな? (笑) あとになって「あれ? 俺、今回変身してないじゃん!」って思ったくらいで。実際、そんなに気になりませんでした。とにかく海東というキャラクターは何でもアリ。高校生にもなるし、弁当のおかずを奪ったりしちゃうし。
Totani: That's right. But I didn't feel uncomfortable without the transformation. As for Diend, I was already doing it as if anything was possible. No... I wonder if I was numb to that part? (laughs) Later, I thought to myself, “Wait, I didn't transform this time!” Actually, it didn’t bother me that much. Anyway, the character Kaitou can be anything. He can even become a high school student who steals the side dishes from lunch boxes.
—人の弁当まで食べちゃうという (笑)。
Interviewer: He even eats other people's lunches (laughs).
あのシーンは台本に書かれていたんですけど、やりとりはほぼアドリブみたいなもんでした。思い出した! あのとんかつ、ソースかかってないんですよ! 観直す機会があったらチエックしてみてください。無味のとんかつをいただいています。
Totani: That scene was written in the script, but the exchange was almost like ad-libbing. I just remembered! That pork cutlet had no sauce on it! If you have a chance to rewatch it, please check it out. I had tasteless pork cutlet.
—今回のVシネで印象に残ったシーンは?
Interviewer: What was the most memorable scene in this V-Cine?
ラストあたりのゲイツのセリフですね。どういうセリフなのかは、ファンの方がそれぞれ作品を観て確認してください。ただ、そのシーンは、大樹が「そうだな!」って確信できた瞬間なんです。これまでは、どこか大樹の予測の範囲で世界が動いてきたけど、そこで初めて純粋に「うん!」って納得できた。それが今回大樹にとって最も大きな変化だし、この先のドラマがまだまだ作れそうだなって思えたシーンでした。
Totani: It's a line from Geiz around the end. What kind of line it is, each fan should watch the work to find out. But that scene is the moment when Daiki’s beliefs were shaken. Until now, the world has moved somewhat within the scope of Daiki's predictions, but there, for the first time, he was genuinely able to accept that someone else was right. That was the biggest change for Daiki this time, and it was a scene that made me think that there is still more drama to be created in the future.
—では、ディエンドの物語には、まだ先があるだろうと?
Interviewer: So you think there is more to the story of Diend?
俺はまだ、海東大樹というキャラクターについて決着がついた感覚がまるでないんです。台本上の決着がついたから「今回は終わりだな」って思うだけで、またここから10年後に呼ばれ ることもあるんじゃないか?と。それくらいの気持ちです。
Totani: I still don't feel as if I've reached a conclusion about the character of Kaitou Daiki. I just think, "This time it's over," because the script has been settled, but I wonder if I will be called upon again in another 10 years. That's how I feel.
—では、令和になってもどこかのライダーにお邪魔するかも?
Interviewer: Then, even in the Reiwa era, he will continue to cause trouble for other Riders?
そうですね。もしかしたら「仮面ライダーゼロワン」にだって出るかもしれないですよ? (一同笑) お客さんもそういうふうに思っていてくれたらなって思います。
Totani: That's right. Maybe he will even appear in "Kamen Rider Zero-One"? (They both laugh) I hope the audience thinks so, too.