Yamamoto & Isomura Crosstalk from Ghost Character Book 1
Fukami Makoto/Kamen Rider Specter and Alain/Kamen Rider Necrom have been "friends" since their days in the Gamma World. Through the exchange of lives, they became "true friends" who can communicate with each other. Yamamoto Ryosuke and Isomura Hayato are happy to see this, and seem to get along even better than their roles. We asked them to talk about their "love" for each other as much as they wanted.
優しいマコト、カワイイ山本涼介
Makoto is gentle, Yamamoto Ryosuke is cute
アランって、マコトのすべてが好きなんだろうな。僕も好きだけど。
Isomura: Alain likes everything about Makoto. I like him too.
おっ!? 直球で来たな (笑)。
Yamamoto: Woah!? You went straight to the point (laughs).
“友達”の意味をこじらせていたときから、マコトはとても優しいし。
Isomura: Makoto has been very kind to him since the time he was confused about the meaning of "friend".
アランのすべてを受けとめてるよ。23話では、サンドイッチと牛乳もごちそうしてあげたし?
Yamamoto: He accepts everything about Alain. In episode 23, he even brought him milk and sandwiches, right?
あれって“餌付け”だよね!?
Isomura: That's domestication, isn't it!?
(大方斐紗子さん演じる) フミ婆のたこ焼きだけでは栄養が偏るかなと思って。それもマコトの優しさです (笑)。
Yamamoto: He thought it would be nutritionally unbalanced if he only ate Grandma Fumi's takoyaki. That's also part of Makoto's kindness (laughs).
マコトは (天空寺) タケルや (深海) カノンほどダイレクトではなくても、アランが人間界で生きる術を、少しずつ言葉や態度で教えてくれている感じがする。
Isomura: Even though Makoto is not as direct as Takeru or Kanon, I feel that he's gradually teaching Alain how to live in the human world through his words and attitude.
でも、全部は言わないんだよね。
Yamamoto: But he doesn't tell him everything.
そう!「今にわかる」とか、いつも寸止め、僕もアランも「なんで最後まで言わない!」と思ってる (笑)。
Isomura: Yes! He always stops short with “You'll understand eventually”, and Alain and I both think, “Why don't you just explain it?” (laughs).
自分で気づいてほしいからだよ。
Yamamoto: Because he wants him to find out for himself.
なんてしっかりした教育方針!
Isomura: What a solid educational policy!
マコトはアランの“親友”であり、 兄でも父でもある気がする。違うかな?
Yamamoto: Makoto is Alain's "best friend," but I feel like he's also like an older brother and a father. Am I wrong?
違わない! 僕はそんなことを言ってくれる涼介をね..... (思い出し笑い)。涼介は人見知りが激しいでしょ。出逢って間もない頃は、「距離をとられてるな~」と感じていた。僕もアランとマコトの心の距離感を演じるために、意識して距離をとっていたのは認める。でも涼介とは絶対に仲よくなりたいと思ったから、「時間をかけて近づこう」と決めてた。
Isomura: You're wrong! I'm the one who said that about Ryosuke... (reminiscent laugh). Ryosuke is very shy, isn't he? When I first met him, I felt that he was keeping his distance from me. I admit that I was consciously keeping my distance in order to play the role of the emotional distance between Alain and Makoto. But I definitely wanted to get to know Ryosuke, so I decided to take my time and get closer to him.
それは感じてた。
Yamamoto: I felt that.
だって、涼介からはなかなか来てくれないから! 一緒のシーンが増えて、マコトとアランが共闘するようになってからは、涼介のことを「カワイイ」と思うようになってきた。「(山本くんのまねで) でへっ♪」って笑うところとか。
Isomura: Because it's not easy for Ryosuke to reach out first! After we had more scenes together and Makoto and Alain started to fight together, I started to think Ryosuke was cute, like the way he laughs, "Teehee♪ (imitating Yamamoto)".
そんな笑い方して......るか (笑)。
Yamamoto: Is that how I laugh... (laughs).
涼介は素直。芝居でも普段の会話でも、まずは「はい」と答えて実践してる。物事にまっすぐ熱く取り組むところは、涼介のいいところで、僕の好きなところ。
Isomura: Ryosuke is honest. Whether in acting or in everyday conversation, he always answers "yes" first and puts it into practice. His straightforward and passionate approach to things is one of Ryosuke's good points and something I like about him.
第一印象は「クール」「神経質そう」「頑固そう」って言われるのにね。
Yamamoto: Even though you said the first impression I give off is "cool," "nervous," and "stubborn".
アランに「マコト」 と呼ばれるのは、まだ恥ずかしい —山本
It's still embarrassing to be called "Makoto" by Alain —Yamamoto
顔立ちの印象がね。僕も最初は頑固な人なのかと思ったけど、たとえば共演シーンについて話し合うと、僕の考えもじっくり聞いたうえで、お互いにとっていいかたちになるように一緒に考えてくれたり。
Isomura: I got the impression from your face. I thought you were stubborn at first, but when we discussed scenes in which we would act together, you would listen carefully to my ideas and then work with me to make it work for both of us.
最初はそれぞれのテリトリーで芝居をしがちだったけど、今は一緒につくっているのを感じるね。具体的に「こうしてみよう」って話をするし、簡単なやりとりだけでお互いの動きが読める。ふたりともカメラが回る直前まで話したり、コミュニケーションがとれるタイプだし。
Yamamoto: At first, we tended to act in our own territories, but now I feel that we are creating together. We talk specifically about how we are going to do things, and we can read each other's moves just from a simple exchange of ideas. Both of us are the type of people who can talk and communicate with each other right up until just before the camera rolls.
僕もアランも初期段階から涼介とマコトをロックオンしていて、今では仲よくなった。僕たちの関係って、見事にリンクしてるね。ただ僕は、アランほど“友達”の概念をこじらせてないからね (笑)!
Isomura: Both Alain and I have had a lock on Ryosuke and Makoto from the early stages and we are now good friends. Our relationship is linked perfectly. It's just that Alain's concept of "friend" is more complicated than mine (laughs)!
うん、信じてるよ (笑)。
Yamamoto: Yes, I think so (laughs).
健気なアラン、保護者の磯村勇斗
Heroic Alain, Guardian Isomura Hayato
涼介はアランと僕のどこが好き?
Isomura: What do you like about Alain and me, Ryosuke?
アランは.....眼魔世界で10年もー緒にいたはずなのに、マコトにとっては謎が多いヤツだった。 アランの求める「完璧な世界」が歪んでいたから、お互いに真の意味でコミュニケーションがとれていなかったからだろうけど。謎めいているという部分では、初期のふたりは似たところがあるのかなと思っていたけど。
Yamamoto: Alain was... He was a mystery to Makoto, even though he was supposed to have been in the Gamma for 10 years. I guess it was because the "perfect world" that Alain was seeking was distorted and they could not communicate with each other in a true sense. I think the two of them had some similarities in the early days in terms of being enigmatic.
お互い、誰にも手の内を見せないようにして、駆け引きめいたことをしていたよね。マコトは笑顔も見せなかったし。
Isomura: They were both trying not to show their hands to anyone, playing games with each other. Makoto didn't even smile.
カノンを蘇らせるのに必死で、結局、駆け引きはできていなかったけど (苦笑)。笑顔は、11話と15話でタケルと和解するまでとっておきたくて。
Yamamoto: He was so busy trying to revive Kanon that he wasn't able to play games at all (bitter smile). I wanted to save his smile until he reconciled with Takeru in episodes 11 and 15.
いい笑顔を見せてたよね。
Isomura: You had a nice smile.
ありがとう。アランと人間界でいろいろなことを共有するごとに、マコトは彼をより「放っておけない」と思うようになってる。僕は心の揺れや隙があるアランとか、それをよしとせずに頑張る健気な姿が好き。まあ、彼を最初に笑顔にしたキーアイテムがたこ焼きになるのは、予想外だったけど。10年見たことのなかった面を、たこ焼きに見せるなんて (笑)。
Yamamoto: Thank you. As he shares more and more things with Alain in the human world, Makoto is becoming more and more convinced that he can't leave him alone. I like Alain with his emotional swings and gaps, and the healthy way he tries his best without letting it get the better of him. Well, I didn't expect that the key item that made him smile in the first place would be takoyaki, showing a side of him Makoto hadn't seen in 10 years (laughs).
確かに (笑)!
Isomura: Certainly (laughs)!
そして、やっぱりあのシーンでしょ。28話で初めてアランに「マコト」と呼ばれた瞬間、さらに距離が縮まった。
Yamamoto: And, of course, there's that scene. The moment Alain called him "Makoto" for the first time in episode 28, they became even closer.
ずっと「スペクター」と呼んでいたアランがね! あれはいいシーン!
Isomura: Alain, who had been calling him "Specter" all along! That was a great scene!
それまではアランは一方的に「親友」「親友」と言っていたけど、あそこでちゃんと“真友”になれた。台本で文字としてじんゆう読んだときは、「なんて照れくさい会話をするの!」と思ったけど...... (照)。
Yamamoto: Until then, Alain had been saying “best friend, best friend” one-sidedly, but in that scene they finally became "true friends". When I read the script, I thought, “What an embarrassing conversation!”... (bashful).
実際に演じても照れたわ~ (照)。
Isomura: I was embarrassed when I actually did that scene~ (bashful).
(芝居して)「マコトと呼んでくれ」
Yamamoto: (Acting) "Call me Makoto."
(やはり芝居して)「マコト.....」
Isomura: (Still acting) "Makoto..."
やっぱり恥ずかしい (笑)!
Yamamoto & Isomura: It's still embarrassing after all (laugh)!
「今後はマコトからアランへのベクトルが激しくなるの?」と思ったシーン。
Yamamoto: That scene made me think "Is the vector from Makoto to Alain going to be more intense from now on?".
大歓迎だよ? アランが下の名前で呼ぶって、相当大きな意味を持つからね。あの「マコト」は、とっても気持ちを込めて言った。
Isomura: It was very well received, wasn't it? It means a lot when Alain calls you by your first name. That “Makoto” was said with a lot of feeling.
(しばし考えて) カノンのことは最初から下の名前で呼んでたけど。
Yamamoto: (Thinking for a moment) He called Kanon by her first name from the beginning.
ん? それは.....カノンの人徳? アランのマコトへのツンデレかな?
Isomura: Hm? Is it because of... Kanon's virtue? Maybe Alain is just tsundere for Makoto?
僕に聞かないで (笑)。でもね、山本涼介としてはアランに「マコト」と呼ばれるのは、まだ違和感があって慣れない。何より恥ずかしい(照)。
Yamamoto: Don't ask me (laughs). But as Yamamoto Ryosuke, I still feel uncomfortable being called "Makoto" by Alain and cannot get used to it. It is more embarrassing than anything else.
ほんと? 名前を呼ぶシーンがどんどん増えるといいな♪ そもそも会話が成立するようになったことがうれしい。涼介と向き合って、言葉を交わす芝居が増えたわけだしね。
Isomura: Really? I hope there will be more and more scenes where he calls out his name♪ I'm glad that we were able to establish conversations in the first place. There were more scenes where I faced Ryosuke and exchanged words with him.
それは同感。
Yamamoto: That's true.
で、磯村勇斗の好きなところは?
Isomura: So, what do you like about Isomura Hayato?
まだだったか (笑)。そうだな.....ボロが出ると手がつけられないところ。
Yamamoto: We're not at that part yet (laughs). Let's see… Your clothes get tattered a lot.
それは涼介も (西銘) 駿も! 仮面ライダー3人はどんどんボロが出る (笑)。
Isomura: That goes for Ryosuke and (Nishime) Shun too! The three Kamen Riders are getting more and more out of shape (laughs).
可愛らしい内容だけど。磯村くんが毎日のようにコーヒーをこぼすとか。プミからもらった白いパンツは危険だね。
Yamamoto: It's cute stuff, though. Isomura-kun spills his coffee almost every day. The white pants Fumi gave you are dangerous.
ものすごく気をつけてるよ!
Isomura: I'm being extremely careful!
なのに、芝居モードになったら別人のようにしっかり者。僕がひとりでセリフをつぶやいていたら、すっと横に来てセリフを合わせてくれるとか。それでテンションも上がるし、考え込んでいたことがクリアになることもあるし。ふたりともちょこちょこと訛りが出るから (山本くんは奈良県、磯村くんは静岡県出身)、イントネーションを指摘し合えるのもありがたい。
Yamamoto: But when he gets into acting mode, he is a different person. When I'm mumbling lines on my own, he quickly comes up beside me and joins in. It lifts my spirits and sometimes clears my thoughts. Both of us have accents (Yamamoto is from Nara Prefecture and Isomura is from Shizuoka Prefecture), so it's nice to be able to point out intonation to each other.
マコトの可愛らしい面を、 アランが引き出したい —磯村
Alain wants to bring out Makoto's cute side —Isomura
それぞれ違うところでるから気づけるんだよね (笑)。考えるほど..... 僕たちって似てるよね。ボロさ加減も波長も。
Isomura: I think we can recognize them because they are different from each other (laughs). The more I think about it… We are so similar, aren't we? Both in raggedness and in wavelength.
違う部分がないはずはないのに、デコボコがうまくハマっていて、もはや何が違うのかわからない、という感じかな。ほぼ毎日撮影で顔を合わせて、待ち時間もずっと一緒にいるのに、ぶつかり合うこともなければ、僕は磯村くんにイラッとすることもない。
Yamamoto: There is no doubt that there are differences between us, but our uneveness fits together so well that I can no longer tell what the differences are. Although we see each other almost every day during filming and spend all our waiting time together, we never clash, and I never feel annoyed with Isomura-kun.
ずっとゲラゲラ笑ってるよね (笑)。僕たちも“真友”なれたのかな。
Isomura: We are always laughing (laughs). I wonder if we have become "true friends" as well.
なれた。昨日も電話をして、「「せーの」で切ろうね」とかやってたしね。
Yamamoto: I am used to it. Yesterday, I called him and said, “Let's hang up at the count of three”.
どっちもなかなか切れなくて。
Isomura: It's hard for either of us to hang up.
何やってんだ (笑)。
Yamamoto & Isomura: What are we doing (laugh)?
今後、新しい発見はあるかな。
Yamamoto: I wonder if there will be any new discoveries in the future.
新しいというか、たまに“塩対応”を感じるときもあるよ。やっぱり人見知りが激しいから、さっきまで笑ってたのに、あまり話したことがない人が場に加わると、急におとなしくなるよね。わかりやすすぎて「カワイイなあ」と思って見てる (笑)。
Isomura: I feel like he's cold sometimes. He's very shy, so when someone he has never talked to before joins the group, even though he was laughing earlier, he suddenly becomes quiet. It's so obvious that I just look at him and think, "How cute!" (laughs).
磯村くんは僕とは逆で、誰にでもすぐにフレンドリーに接するし、優しいよね。そんなときの僕は、磯村くんの後ろに隠れて会話を聞くの磯村くんが相手と仲よくなったなと判断したら、 会話に加わる (笑)。
Yamamoto: Isomura-kun is the opposite of me. He is very friendly and kind to everyone. In such situations, I hide behind Isomura-kun and listen to the conversation, and when Isomura-kun decides that he has become friends with someone, I join the conversation (laugh).
僕は涼介のママなの (爆笑)!?
Isomura: Am I your mom (roar of laughter)!?
人間界のマコトとアランの関係性と逆で、お世話になってます (笑)。
Yamamoto: It’s the opposite of the relationship between Makoto and Alain in the human world, I am the one who’s indebted to you (laughs).
“友度”を深めたい
I want to deepen our "friendship"
アランとマコトはどうなるだろう。
Isomura: I wonder what’ll happen to Alain and Makoto.
絆は強くなるのか、それとも.....。
Yamamoto: Will their bond become stronger, or…?
このまま強くなる一方だと信じる!
Isomura: I believe it will only get stronger!
23話でマコトが消えたとき、泣いてくれたもん。あの気持ちを忘れないでね。
Yamamoto: You cried when Makoto disappeared in episode 23. Don't forget that feeling.
あのシーンもふたりのベストシーンだね。その場でセリフの変更が入って焦ったこともあって、より印象に残ってる。
Isomura: That scene is also one of our best scenes together. It's even more memorable because I had to change the lines on the spot.
僕はマコトが消えるという局面を演じる意味でも、いっぱいいっぱいだった。経験しようのない感情表現だもんね。
Yamamoto: I was also occupied in acting out the setting of Makoto's disappearance. It was an emotional expression that I had no way of experiencing.
アランは「マコトが自分をかばって消える」 マコトは「アランたちを残して消える」瞬間だった。そういう後悔が交差して、現場の空気が張りつめてもい たし。でも、アランとマコト、僕と涼介の心がひとつになれたと感じた。
Isomura: It was the moment when Alain felt "Makoto disappeared protecting him" and Makoto "disappeared leaving Alain and the others behind". The atmosphere at the scene was tense because of these intersecting regrets. But I felt that the hearts of Alain, Makoto, myself, and Ryosuke were united.
そこに磯村くんの涙があって、あの撮影は心がしびれっぱなしだったよ。
Yamamoto: Isomura-kun’s tears made my heart feel numb all the way through that shoot.
僕は「マコトも泣く!?」って衝撃が。
Isomura: I was shocked, thinking, "Makoto will cry too!?"
泣いちゃったよね (照)。お互いに引き出し合った感情の芝居だったね。
Yamamoto: I cried, didn't I? (bashful). It was a play of emotions that brought out the best in each other.
マコトから教えてもらった感情も、マコトに対して起こる感情も、アランは育んでいく一方だから。今後はアランからマコトにあげられるものがあるといいな。
Isomura: Alain will continue to nurture the feelings that Makoto has taught him and the feelings he has toward Makoto. I hope there is something that Alain can give to Makoto in the future.
十分もらってるよ。
Yamamoto: He’s already given enough.
もっとこう、アランだけが知っていて、マコトに自慢できるようなこととか。マコトの可愛らしい面ってまだ出てないから、それをアランが引き出したい!
Isomura: Something more like this, something only Alain knows and can brag to Makoto about. Makoto's cute side hasn't come out yet, so Alain wants to bring it out!
アランに優しく微笑みかけているでしょ。 あれじゃあ足りない?
Yamamoto: He smiles kindly at Alain, doesn't he? Isn't that enough?
人って欲ばりになるよね (笑)。と言いつつ、サンドイッチをくれたときのマコトの笑顔が大好き。アランに向かって来るときからニコニコしていたよね。
Isomura: People get greedy, don't they? (laughs) Having said that, I love the smile on Makoto's face when he gave him the sandwich. He was smiling from the moment he came toward Alain.
諸田 (敏) 監督から「親友 (アラン) が兄 (アデル) に裏切られて、空腹で、何もかもが落ちているときだから、元気づけてあげて」というアドバイスをいただいて。それには笑顔を向けることだなと思った。「こんなに笑っていいんだろうか」と考えたけど、「人間にはいろいろな面がある。マコトにだってあるよな」とも考えたら、自然にあの顔になったよ。
Yamamoto: Director Morota Satoshi gave me the advice, “Your best friend (Alain) has been betrayed by his brother (Adel), he's hungry, and everything is falling apart, so please cheer him up.” I thought to do that, I had to smile. I wondered if it was okay to smile so much, but then I thought, "People have many sides. Makoto has many sides to him, too," and that's when I naturally came up with that face.
「あの顔を向けられたら、 アランも変わっていくよな」と思った。心を通わせる芝居を積み重ねて、ふたりの関係を突きつめたいね。涼介とならできると思う。アランからの笑顔のお返しも楽しみにしてて!
Isomura: I thought, “If Alain sees that face, he will change too”. I would like to continue to play the role of a heart-to-heart communication and further explore the relationship between the two of them. I think I can do that with Ryosuke. Please look forward to Alain’s smiles in return!
うん。ふたりのシーンでアドリブが生まれたら素敵だよね。無理に考えるのではなく、自然と出たものでふたりの関係をより深く見せたい。やっと心からの“友”だと断言できるんだから、僕と磯村くんの絆を芝居にも反映したい。
Yamamoto: Yes, it would be wonderful if we could ad lib in our scenes together. I want to show a deeper relationship between the two of them, not by forcing it, but by letting it come out naturally. Since they can finally say that they are "friends" from the bottom of their hearts, I want to reflect the bond between Isomura-kun and me in our acting.
だから、涼介も僕の真友でいてね。
Isomura: Please be my true friend too, Ryosuke.
それはもう自然になってるから。
Yamamoto: Naturally we already are.
やった♪
Isomura: Yay! ♪
